Hogarth-era Marillion Suggestions - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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stonebeard View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2010 at 14:19

Lest we forget:

My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2010 at 14:19

Brave and Afraid Of Sunlight are my faves, Strange Engine, and, Radiation are OK. I've kept up with them after that but interest has waned as they don't seem to be doing much fresh.

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Progfan1958 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2010 at 16:58

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Progfan1958 wrote:

Ivan, I guess being a lawyer you find it fun to play with words in this way. Perhaps GOOD and EVIL are cut and dried for you ? However LOVE and HATE are not poles, they are limits and as such not two sides of the same coin, there are an infinite amount of quanta in between . Should I troll through your reviews to see where you contradict or express yourself in an seemingly inconsistent manner ?

First,

I'm not trolling (trolling is provoking the readers), I didn't start this, you criticized my choice of words), I'm just REPLYING to your accusation, you criticized my post for the horrendous act of hating a band's production, so I had to verify if you do the same, and I was right, you did it...My reviews are there to be checked (Not top secret), some members have rubbed them in my face hundreds of times

And I will save you time, yes I'm capable of being emotional or extremely rude in my opinions and don't hide it, so don't care to check unless you want to know my opinion about a band or album, but I wouldn't criticize you for saying you find an album repulsive if I qualify others as being worth to be hated,

Second,

I don't play with words, being English my second language, I have to double check a word, something that for you must be simpler, if you use the word abomination, I must believe you know what it means, and the definition gave is there in black and white in the dictionary, if you say you find Love Beach repulsive, I must believe it's your choice of word.

Progfan1958 wrote:

Like you just went through mine ? ) I excercise my right to artistic license and If you want me to be plain and use the word hate, then I'll say that I hate hatred ! It's a destructive term. To hate something is a human emotional failure. So I would rather aspire to love, and try not to fail and hate, but then usually suceed with something more on the positive side of the median, rather than straying the other way. I'm not a fan of James Blunt or Celine Dion, but I won't say that I HATE their music....it's just not my thing.

And.....Is abomination a constructive term?

I don't dare to criticize your choice of words...Don't dare to criticize mine....I haven't accused you of being negative for using that term, I just pointed your inconsistence when you accuse me of negative for hating music when you abhor other music.

And yes I know hate is a destructive word, and it's the word that fits best what I feel when I listen determined music, so again take the license you want, my posts and reviews are there to be read and dissected if you want, as has been done before.

Progfan1958 wrote:

I don't particularly like Love Beach, and I may have used the word abomination ( a bit of drama if you will....I am allowed ) , but I'm still glad to have heard it, and in the context of some other music out there it's still a better listen than some, even at 1 star per my rating

You gave 1 star and called Love Beach an abomination (I did the same)...Why do you need to hide what you feel for the album, when it's obvious you consider it terrible?

I don't, I say what I believe without hiding anything, of course I never use the terms trash or crap to describe something others love, but if I find a an album or the production of a band and/or lame and for that reason I hate it,. I don't hide it.

Progfan1958 wrote:

II never implied that you or anyone doesn't like something because it isn't prog, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are signed up to ProgArchives that are fans of Dylan, Waits and all types of what this site defines as non-progressive music.

It seemed like that.

Progfan1958 wrote:

Back to your dictionary to pick my rebuttal apart then I guess.

Steve

No, not necesary in this case.

Iván

Please understand that I simply do not agree with your approach then, at least with respect to using a word like "hate" , which will be my blunt answer. Getting back to the thread question originally posed, you can elect to recommend that the reader forget about exploring Hogarth era Marillion, but jumping into a thread asking for suggestions, which in essense implies where to start, and adding a comment like you did will only provoke responses from those who take exception to your statement. Proper etiquette would be to make no comment and move on to another topic that you find more interesting. Other people have said this as well. so I am just re-stating their words. I apologize if I have offended you.

Let's take this another direction then. As a non-fan of the current "H" fronted Marillion, do you think your tastes/opinion would ever change over time ? Or, is the door closed ?

Steve

Edited by Progfan1958 - July 05 2010 at 17:11

Progfan1958
"Peace to you all"
"La paix est avec vous"
"Pax vobiscum"
"Al salaam a'alaykum"
"Vrede zij met u allen"
"Shalom aleichem"

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2010 at 20:33

Progfan1958 wrote:

Of course it's ok if you don't agree with me and Friede who just defended my position, I strongly disagree with your option, because I believe it's better to tell somebody who doesn't know a band, "Hey, avoid X because I believe it's bad, or boring or lame or whatever". If that persons reads my reviews and agrees with my taste, I would probably have saved him some bucks, time and disenchantment with Prog.

I as a fact would thank somebody who told me avoid Y band, if I don't know that person, I would research a bit more, but if I have read this people reviews and trust them (Like Gatot or Sean for example) I would ran away from the album as a pest.

Progfan1958 wrote:

Proper etiquette would be to make no comment and move on to another topic that you find more interesting. Other people have said this as well. so I am just re-stating their words. I apologize if I have offended you.

If only the fans would write to say a band is great and the people who find the band terrible would shut their moth because of etiquette I WOULDN'T TRUST A WORD OF PROGARCHIVES, BECAUSE EVERYTHING WOULD BE PERFECT

We need the balance between positive and negative points of view.

And no you haven't offended me, your words express your position, what pissed me is a reply like Rushfan's who called us Prog Snobs, a term used to describe all the people who don't agree with our taste.

Progfan1958 wrote:

Let's take this another direction then. As a non-fan of the current "H" fronted Marillion, do you think your tastes/opinion would ever change over time ? Or, is the door closed ?

Steve

I quite like one song called "Uninvited Guest", but the point is that I choose my Prog and my Pop bands, If I want to listen good POP, I buy a Fleetwood Mac, Cranberries or a Duran Duran Duran album,but I buy Yes, Genesis or Marillion to listen Progressive Rock.

Normally I don't like a band that turns from Prog to Pop, because trhey become a hybrid....That's my opinion of "H" Marillion, Not Prog, not Pop, not AOR...Not interesting.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 05 2010 at 20:36

Progfan1958 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2010 at 17:04

Steve

Normally I don't like a band that turns from Prog to Pop, because trhey become a hybrid....That's my opinion of "H" Marillion, Not Prog, not Pop, not AOR...Not interesting.

Iván

[/QUOTE]

Ivan, if you have not heard anything from Marbles, you may want to give a listen to "The Invisible Man" and "Ocean Cloud". These two tracks are very far from pop, and quite progressive. Try to find a free download or preview somewhere. you may be a bit suprised.

I started into prog back in 1973, with ELP's Trilogy ( a great Album ) , and have kept an ear open ever since. Of the latter day prog bands I really enjoy The Flower Kings, and Spock's Beard - their latest album "X" in very good, and is easily the best they've done since Neal Morse left.

Are you much of a King Crimson fan ?

Steve.

Progfan1958
"Peace to you all"
"La paix est avec vous"
"Pax vobiscum"
"Al salaam a'alaykum"
"Vrede zij met u allen"
"Shalom aleichem"

A Person

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Posted: July 06 2010 at 17:08

Received and listened to the Marillion sampler today, and I liked it? Shocked

The Monodrone View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2010 at 17:23

A Person wrote:

Received and listened to the Marillion sampler today, and I liked it? Shocked

^ Hey, I received mine today as well!

...that's kind of strange; we must have ordered on the same day.

Anyway, it's very interesting. As of right now, I'm listening to 'Neverland' from Marbles. The songs that have really stuck out for me are 'Hard as Love,' 'Asylum Satellite #1,' ... well basically every track so far.

They are indeed much different from the Fish-days, but also quite good, though I must certainly listen to more. This may sound strange, but they sound a bit like a less complicated, more melodic Radiohead. Hogarth is a great and powerful singer. Now back to the listening...

Edited by ptkc123 - July 06 2010 at 18:23

moshkito

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Posted: July 06 2010 at 20:48

Hi,

I have a whole bunch of Marillion albums and I find I enjoy the Fish stuff as much as the other.

I really think that sometimes we're just being snobbish and allowing our preferences to dictate our ideas, and that is really sad.

There is a lot of music out there, and FISH has not exactly been an idiot singer and performer dong nothing but blues standards out there. He has a very large, and quite respectable output of material, but no one is going to give him that credit.

Sad.

And Hogarth is good in his own way and there are a lot of things that sound right, and ok with him.

So sad ... that we can't listen for the love of listening to it all without ever having to worry about anyone's ideas.

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2010 at 23:21

Progfan1958 wrote:

I heard each and every Marillion album, and believe me, in the 90's (when I didn't knew about Anglagard or Par Lindh) tried as hard as I could to like their music, but I can't stand the voice of Hogarth neither the change in style.

Progfan1958 wrote:

I started into prog back in 1973, with ELP's Trilogy ( a great Album ) , and have kept an ear open ever since. Of the latter day prog bands I really enjoy The Flower Kings, and Spock's Beard - their latest album "X" in very good, and is easily the best they've done since Neal Morse left.

Are you much of a King Crimson fan ?

Steve.

I started in 1976 with early Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd and since the late 90's I listened all the styles and genres possible, have nealry 4,000 recordings (Cd's and Lp's) and found great modern bands.

And no, I'm not a King Crimson fan, except ITCOTCK and part of Red, I don't like KC.

Iván

The Monodrone View Drop Down

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 08:47

^ Is that part of Red 'Starless' ?

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 11:29

Starless and One More Red Nightmare

Iván

E-Dub

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 17:02

ptkc123 wrote:

A Person wrote:

Received and listened to the Marillion sampler today, and I liked it? Shocked

Hogarth is a great and powerful singer. Now back to the listening...

After seeing them live for the first time last year in Montreal, I have an even greater appreciation for Hogarth as a frontman. A captivating performer who had everyone's attention the entire weekend.

Greatest live concert experience of my life.

E

The Monodrone View Drop Down

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 18:48

I think my next purchase will be Brave. :)

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 19:12

ptkc123 wrote:

I think my next purchase will be Brave. :)

Be really Brave and get the DVD. Wink

Marbles is another one from the Hogarth era I like at least until I find the marbles I lost. Tongue

Nice live DVD for that tour is out there.

Edited by Slartibartfast - July 07 2010 at 19:17

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

E-Dub

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 19:57

ptkc123 wrote:

I think my next purchase will be Brave. :)

Excellent move! If you can locate a copy of Brave Live 2002, snag it. One of the best DVD's I have.

E

The Monodrone View Drop Down

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 20:01

^ I'll try to locate one.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there a Brave film made?

E-Dub

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 20:15

ptkc123 wrote:

^ I'll try to locate one.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there a Brave film made?

Yes...unfortunately. Ugh!!!!

E

The Monodrone View Drop Down

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Posted: July 07 2010 at 23:00

E-Dub wrote:

ptkc123 wrote:

^ I'll try to locate one.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there a Brave film made?

Yes...unfortunately. Ugh!!!!

E

That bad, eh?

E-Dub

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Posted: July 08 2010 at 04:50

I can appreciate what they were trying to do, but it was a bit too edgy and raw for my tastes.

They interviewed the actress who played the troubled youth in a WebUK issue a year or so ago and that was a pretty interesting read.

E