Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
Scoppioingola
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 02 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 85
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 09:26 |
Niv wrote:
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. After nearly a year of listening I'm only just beginning to truly hear how good it really is. It had no effect on me at all first listen, but very gradually, the more I hear it the more I like it.
|
Ditto, but I still don't know what's so great about it. What pains me is that I'm a huge Genesis fan, and I still can't wrap my head around this one...
|
|
Ronnie Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
Status: Offline
Points: 771
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 10:08 |
Most Frank Zappa seems a bit "unaccessible" at first listen, but once you familiarize yourself with the nuances of the music I find it to be quite rewarding.
|
"The pointy birds are pointy pointy
Anoint my head anointy nointy"
Steve Martin The Man With Two Brains
|
|
omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 10:10 |
It's quite funny that albums some find to be very chalenging are realy easy to digest to others so the main thing I learned from this discussion is that it is very subjective. In my case "The lamb" was an immediate love afair (I was 18 at that time) and Sleepytime gorila museum (Of natural history) is quite accesible.
I'll mention 3 examples of what I find challenging :
1. Universe zero - Heresie. This is a very classic oriented album with very dark atitude. It is quite obvious that it is good, rich, complex and deep but I need to be in a very optimistic mood to dare to put it on.
2. Henry cow - Western culture. Very dysonant. Beautyful to my ears but needs very devoted hearing. What's funny is that "In praise of learning" is very listenable IMO.
3. Pink floyd - Ummagumma. After quite a few listens I still do not understand it so I can't realy say if it's good and chalenging or does not make sense (and I find "Saucer full of secrets" an accesible album so don't ask me what's the difference. I don't know myself).
|
omri
|
|
Adams Bolero
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 679
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 10:11 |
Beaubourg by Vangelis is tough going.
|
''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.''
- Albert Camus
|
|
Camel666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 133
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 10:14 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Here we go again, all the way to the examples of things that nobody does to complain about music you don't like. No, music that is too avant-garde for you is not meaningless! And by what method do you assign meaning? |
Don't you just love it when someone jumps in with a condiscendent reply, assuming you're an idiot? I know I do.
So now I need to explain my position. If we talk about paintings, I guess there is little to no doubt that Caravaggio's Beheading of St. John the Baptist makes more sense as a painting than, I don't know, Fontana's cut. So, while talking about "meaning" in absolutistic terms doesn't make much sense, you certainly can talk about meaning in relative terms. Fontana's cut has close to no meaning at all when you compare it to a painting by Caravaggio. It's not inaccessible, it's just a terrible, terrible excuse for a painting, if you analyze it AS a painting. Its significance goes well beyond that.
Now, one can safely say that Fontana's cut is like farting for 50minutes on a cd. If it has a meaning, it's not, or at least not mainly, about music. If we listen to this, for example:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Otomo Yoshide [sic] probably has the most challenging discography on here. Consume Red is 5 second sample looped for 45 minutes, and Cathode is high pitched droning sine waves. |
can't we say that this is the Fontana's cut of music? What can we say about it if we only look at it as a piece of music? Couldn't we safely say it has no meaning in comparison to Pink Floyd's Confortably numb? And what does the topic ask? What's the most inaccessible PROG. Is this prog? What the hell, is this even music? This is more of an experiment than music. It's ART but I am not sure it has much sense if you confine it into the boundaries of "music". Imho, this goes beyond, just like Fontana's cut. Avant-garde some times is just like visual art. You can't fully appreciate it if you don't expand your point of view. In conclusion, am I saying Consume Red is musically bad? Yes. Am I saying it doesn't make any sense naming YoshiHIde when talking about inaccessible progressive rock? Yes. Do I consider Yoshihide an artist? Yes. Do I need to justify myself to fanboys who name obscure acts when it's not apt and feel like they are so good because they understand weird music and you don't? Apparently yes.
|
|
Camel666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 133
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 10:18 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
My first impulse was to say that the free improvisation sections of Henry Cow, John Zorn, and whoever else listed here that secretly would prefer playing free jazz
|
BTW, I deeply agree with you on this. It's not about it being inaccessible, it's that you get the feeling it's all very superfluous, as you clearly imply. But what do I know, maybe we don't fully like it but it makes heaps of sense to other guys, as you reminded me later on when I expressed a similar judgement on something YOU like.
Edited by Camel666 - June 14 2010 at 10:27
|
|
apps79
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 15 2007
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 1551
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 11:08 |
DT-PT wrote:
That was the case with me and Gentle Giant. |
I am with you.
|
When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace...
listen to www.justincaseradio.com , the first ever Greek Progressive Rock radio
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 11:33 |
Adams Bolero wrote:
Beaubourg by Vangelis is tough going. |
I can identify with that sentiment. I gave up on it long ago and won't be ever tempted to try it in CD form. I'm going to have to nominate Trout Mask Replica. I first encountered it in CD form. I keep it in my collection and in rotation, but it makes my ears bleed.
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
bsms810
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 363
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 11:39 |
Captain Clutch wrote:
beebs wrote:
In this era, I'd have to go with Mars Volta. Definitely an acquired taste.
|
That's just because the singer has a horrible voice
|
Could not agree more. I reckon i'd absolutely love the band if i could stomach the singing
|
'when was the last time you had a girlfriend?'
'I dont look at it as when, I look at it as who...and why' - David Brent
|
|
Rune2000
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 23 2004
Location: STHLM, Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 1833
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 12:17 |
I feel that there is a distinction between challenging and demanding material. I find most new music from other genres than Symphonic Prog, Crossover Prog and Prog Folk to be challenging. So far, there are only three albums the I consider to be demanding no matter how much I listen to them: Can - Tago MagoCaptain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica Univers Zero - Heresie
|
|
The Monodrone
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Indiana, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4489
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 12:23 |
Anything by Kayo Dot is extremely hard for me to get in to; I have been listening to CotE and it's getting a little easier.
|
|
|
VanVanVan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 756
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 12:58 |
bsms810 wrote:
Captain Clutch wrote:
beebs wrote:
In this era, I'd have to go with Mars Volta. Definitely an acquired taste.
|
That's just because the singer has a horrible voice
|
Could not agree more. I reckon i'd absolutely love the band if i could stomach the singing |
While he certainly has a *ahem* "unique" voice, I think it actually fits the music very well.
That said, I agree that TMV are very difficult to get into. I had Frances the Mute for 3 or 4 years before I started enjoying it.
|
"The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen
|
|
Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6467
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 13:05 |
Adams Bolero wrote:
Beaubourg by Vangelis is tough going. |
I hear you there. There was only a brief period of time when I could say that I 'got it.' Usually when I reach that point, I keep it. Not with this album though. I understood it, at least in my own way, but then it slipped away from me.
The word "challenging" to me indicates that there is some kind of enjoyable pay-off for taking the effort to appreciate the music. It may be difficult to hear all of what is going on, or to get an understanding of what the artist is trying to convey. As far as rock is concerned, I would say Gentle Giant. Their music is so intricate I have to listen several times to even hear all of what is going on. Beyond that is the fusion music of Miles Davis, especially Bitches Brew. There are so many layers to the music that it sounds almost like different pieces every time I listen. The same is true for his Tribute to Jack Johnson. Two of Herbie Hancock's albums, Mwandishi and Crossings, have similar depth. In another way, The Residents are a challenge in that they have created their own musical language that is consistent with itself but not much with anything else (nor is it simply noise). All of these example fits my criteria - I took up the gauntlet, listened attentively, and came to a deeper appreciation for music because of it. These artists challenged my conventions of music, and I enjoy them all.
|
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
|
|
lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13635
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 13:12 |
Some of the best music I have is challenging, in the sense it took a while to get into. Floyd certainly fell into that category, as does Waters' solo material - genius, but appreciated after a few listens.
However, I would say that the answer to the question for me would be VDGG - hugely rewarding when you appreciate it, but very hard work getting there, with all of their work.
|
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
|
|
squire4001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 188
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 16:43 |
Krautrock and Zeuhl could be a bit challenging at first listen.... I had some problems with avant-garde music but after several listenings I liked it!
The trick here is give several listenings to the album with positivity and open-mind thats all!
|
Prog´ everyday in every way of your life including music!
|
|
Tengent
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2009
Location: Evansville, IN
Status: Offline
Points: 119
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 20:15 |
I still can't stand some of the tracks on Henry Cow's In Praise of Learning, but I think Western Culture is perfection from start to finish. Also- Bitches Brew, Egg's tone generator bits, and The Mars Volta.. :<
|
|
The Monodrone
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Indiana, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4489
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 20:40 |
^ Hey, I'm also from Indiana! ...and the Mars Volta rock!
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 21:21 |
This isn't worthy of a special thread, but make Trout Mask Replica interesting for me.
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 21:39 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
This isn't worthy of a special thread, but make Trout Mask Replica interesting for me.
|
1. the sax solo on Ant Man Bee 2. the background vocals on Neon Meate Dream of a Octofish 3. the song Sugar and Spikes try it
|
|
Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
|
Posted: June 14 2010 at 22:23 |
Unexpect terrified me when I first heard it and I'm not a metal/extreme noob. It requires nerves of steel to sit through a record of theirs.
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.