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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 18:38
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Yes but why do you believe in Jesus and God?

That's my point.

There's no real basis to do so.  Jesus/God can be considered the same as Santa Claus if you're a child.  Why don't you grow out of it?


The questions you and Mike have problems with- I believe these are not violations of scientific law necessarily.  They were just told in the language of the day and in such a way that their ancient, limited scientific understanding permits.

We have bizarre accounts of things that happened 200 years ago, but science today explains them without questioning if it happened.  We just understand the physics better.  No, I do not have an explanation for every strange thing in the Bible, but I've seen so many things explained rationally, that I feel safe saying, "There probably is a scientific explanation for that, but I don't know what it is yet."

Again, and I've said this before-  If God created the universe, then he created the laws that govern it.  Why would such a God want to disrupt his order?

I am a materialist Christian.  I don't believe in magic.  Folks seem to forget that.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 18:40
So does that therefore mean there's scientific reasons for the existence of Santa Claus then?
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 18:42
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



How many people believe in the Greek gods?  Well, at least 12 people that I know of for sure.  LOL

But you know what?  What you've just described is precisely why my wife is opposed to teaching our kids to believe in Santa Claus.

The difference here, is that the grownups believe in Jesus.  Smile

Oh but the Easter Bunny is OK with you? Tongue

Come with me, and you'll be, in a world of pure imagination...

You don't seriously know 12 people who believe in the Greek Gods?
How many people do you know who believe in the Roman ones?  (copycats) LOL

Not to mock you or anything.  I respect the beliefs of the religious to the extent they respect my right to not be.  And I believe you do. Big smile

I don't believe in Beatles.


I was going to write the Easter bunny too but I was just lazy!  LOL

I do not know 12 people personally, but I read an article just last month talking about a small group in Greece led by a priestess that rebelled against Greek Orthodoxy because they insisted the Greek gods were real.

And yes, in our country, you have every right to non-belief, and I won't pester anybody who does not.  But I will try to dispel misinterpretations of the Bible.  Religious freedom is a wonderful thing.  Smile
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 18:44
Originally posted by James James wrote:

So does that therefore mean there's scientific reasons for the existence of Santa Claus then?


I didn't say reasons, I said explanations.

And no.  There are no scientific explanations for the current myth of Santa Claus.  No more than there are scientific explanations for this pink elephant I keep seeing.  Wink
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 18:49
Ah, then I don't understand how you believe in God then.

God is a myth just as much as Santa, The Cookie Monster, The Giant Spaghetti Monster, the Tooth Fairy and Phil Collins being good.

Therefore no scientific explanations can possibly exist for them in your eyes either.
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 18:59
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Ah, then I don't understand how you believe in God then.

God is a myth just as much as Santa, The Cookie Monster, The Giant Spaghetti Monster, the Tooth Fairy and Phil Collins being good.

Therefore no scientific explanations can possibly exist for them in your eyes either.


Yes James, God is on the same level as fictional characters made up in the last few centuries.  Thanks for such a brilliant argument.

Right.  Off to watch your Gordon Ramsay cuss some people out.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:02
Yes God is.  It's just God is a fictional character made up a few thousand years ago.
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:05
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Yes God is.  It's just God is a fictional character made up a few thousand years ago.


Okay.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:06
Fine, you're not even willing to discuss this.
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 21:02
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Ah, then I don't understand how you believe in God then.

God is a myth just as much as Santa, The Cookie Monster, The Giant Spaghetti Monster, the Tooth Fairy and Phil Collins being good.

Therefore no scientific explanations can possibly exist for them in your eyes either.


Yes James, God is on the same level as fictional characters made up in the last few centuries.  Thanks for such a brilliant argument.

Right.  Off to watch your Gordon Ramsay cuss some people out.

Phil Collins is a fictional character??? ShockedConfused That explains things... Tongue


Edited by The T - June 08 2010 at 21:02
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 21:05
Just his singing career is fictional.  The man himself exists.  Much like some dude called Jesus existed.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 22:06
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Ah, then I don't understand how you believe in God then.

God is a myth just as much as Santa, The Cookie Monster, The Giant Spaghetti Monster, the Tooth Fairy and Phil Collins being good.

Therefore no scientific explanations can possibly exist for them in your eyes either.


Yes James, God is on the same level as fictional characters made up in the last few centuries.  Thanks for such a brilliant argument.

Right.  Off to watch your Gordon Ramsay cuss some people out.

I don't believe in Gordon even though he is entertaining.  His schtick did get old after a while you donkey! LOL
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 01:26
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

That's good that you do not then, in my opinion.  Many families do though.  The same with the Tooth Fairy.

It's an analogy I've used before actually.

I realise Santa Claus/Father Christmas/St. Nikolaus isn't the same as God but he's still very much a figure people believe in at a young age.  Yet I know nobody who says he's real or has ever been real.  Yet he rides a sleigh, is able to travel faster than speed of light (or so I always presumed) and has magical reindeer who can fly.

Mike said something like that earlier in reference to Zeus as well.  Yet how many people believe in the Roman, Greek and Norse pantheon of gods and goddesses?

This is why it has always been difficult to accept God can exist.  You get told of Santa Claus when you're young and then you suddenly realise you'd been fooled all these years.


How many people believe in the Greek gods?  Well, at least 12 people that I know of for sure.  LOL

But you know what?  What you've just described is precisely why my wife is opposed to teaching our kids to believe in Santa Claus.

The difference here, is that the grownups believe in Jesus.  Smile


Now *that's* smugness.LOL

Please, explain to me the difference between Santa Claus, the Greek gods and your God in terms of "provability".

IMO "grownups" should only believe in reasonable things. You know, taken literally: Things that good reasons for believing in them can be found.
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 01:32
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Ah, then I don't understand how you believe in God then.

God is a myth just as much as Santa, The Cookie Monster, The Giant Spaghetti Monster, the Tooth Fairy and Phil Collins being good.

Therefore no scientific explanations can possibly exist for them in your eyes either.


Yes James, God is on the same level as fictional characters made up in the last few centuries.  Thanks for such a brilliant argument.

Right.  Off to watch your Gordon Ramsay cuss some people out.


He is. Claims that he exists may be older, and more people may believe in him, but when it comes to reasons for believing in him - where's the difference? Seriously, the only reason that you can not agree here is that your huge bias in favor of this particular religion causes you to make an exception on his behalf. It's a superstition like all the other religions, yet you treat it like it was a given fact, and arrange your life (including your studies) in ways that are compatible with that "fact". I'm sure you are a rational person - except when it comes to topics that might interfere with your belief.
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 07:42
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Ah, then I don't understand how you believe in God then.

God is a myth just as much as Santa, The Cookie Monster, The Giant Spaghetti Monster, the Tooth Fairy and Phil Collins being good.

Therefore no scientific explanations can possibly exist for them in your eyes either.


Yes James, God is on the same level as fictional characters made up in the last few centuries.  Thanks for such a brilliant argument.

Right.  Off to watch your Gordon Ramsay cuss some people out.


He is. Claims that he exists may be older, and more people may believe in him, but when it comes to reasons for believing in him - where's the difference? Seriously, the only reason that you can not agree here is that your huge bias in favor of this particular religion causes you to make an exception on his behalf. It's a superstition like all the other religions, yet you treat it like it was a given fact, and arrange your life (including your studies) in ways that are compatible with that "fact". I'm sure you are a rational person - except when it comes to topics that might interfere with your belief.


Prophecy and typology.  That is precisely why I believe in God (and Jesus Christ, specifically).

And please, do continue screaming about bias.  It's really amusing coming from you.
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 08:06
^ Can you name any fact that I'm biased against?I'll gladly admit that I'm biased against the Christian faith ... and I believe that I have some very good reasons for that. The important thing is that I'm pretty sure that you can't give me good reasons that challenge my position ... arguments that would trump my own arguments for holding the position.


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - June 09 2010 at 08:13
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 08:46
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ Can you name any fact that I'm biased against?I'll gladly admit that I'm biased against the Christian faith ... and I believe that I have some very good reasons for that. The important thing is that I'm pretty sure that you can't give me good reasons that challenge my position ... arguments that would trump my own arguments for holding the position.


I am not interested in challenging your position.  You are entitled to it.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 09:44
Not interested or not able to?
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 09:47
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Not interested or not able to?


This is why I'm not interested.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 09:52
Because you're not able to answer?

Thought so.
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