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Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
Status: Offline
Points: 771
Posted: May 26 2010 at 21:49
JLocke wrote:
Plus, this is a prog site. We tend to like Gilmour more by default.
Precisely. Throw all objectivity out with the bath water. Did Gilmour ever compose anything as moving as "The Rain Song?" WalterDigsTunes has the best take on this thread. Proggies are biased toward musicians in their genre, but Gilmore plays like he's on autopilot. And "Comfortably Numb" is the same long boring solo broken into two parts. Puhleeeeeze.
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65266
Posted: May 26 2010 at 21:54
CinemaZebra wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
CinemaZebra wrote:
The one who didn't steal any riffs.
As for Page's "stealing", he and Zeppelin contributed to the blues more than they stole from it.
I don't see how that justifies it. If it weren't for Page's stealing, Led Zeppelin wouldn't even get the opportunity to "contribute" to the blues in the first place.
They have nothing to justify: the very basis of all bluesrock is the
black artists in the US of the 40s and 50s, and all the important
bluesrock/heavy blues artists took from that legacy - Cream, Blue
Cheer, Santana, the Stones, Johnny Winter, the Doors, Sabbath, you name
it, and most of the riffs, phrasing and lyrical relation are directly
traceable to the electric Blues of the 20th century. I'm not just
talking influence either, but direct usage of material that was often unknown
to most or was no longer available. Further, Zeppelin weren't the only
ones to not properly credit artists, they just were too
blatant and successful for it to slip by.
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
Posted: May 26 2010 at 22:44
Even though I do like Gilmour better, I do think Page can be an awsome emotional player, a great example for me would be Since I've Been Loving You. Also, it's been mentioned about Gilmour reproducing note for note his solos while playing live, and from what I've heard on live album, he usually adds to the song, both in time and in emotion. I usually like his songs (or Pink Floyd's) better live because of the way he plays them.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: May 27 2010 at 11:32
Captain Clutch wrote:
Each of them was the best man for the job they did, but let's face it guys: Led Zep is a band that is far more based on the guitar, and therefore Page plays a more significant role in his band
Not really, it's based far more on distorted guitar, is what I would say. Yes, keyboards have very little role to play in Led Zep compared to Floyd, but Gilmour was still the most important link in Floyd and Floyd were mainly a guitar based band too. Anyway, my vote goes to Gilmour. I like Page the arranger but Page the guitarist, both riffs and solos wise, doesn't do much for me, would rather Iommi and Blackmore respectively. I am not nearly as fond of the Comfortably Numb solo as many Floyd fans seem to be. I prefer his output from Meddle through to Dark Side.
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
Posted: May 28 2010 at 10:27
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
JLocke wrote:
Plus, this is a prog site. We tend to like Gilmour more by default.
Precisely. Throw all objectivity out with the bath water. Did Gilmour ever compose anything as moving as "The Rain Song?" WalterDigsTunes has the best take on this thread. Proggies are biased toward musicians in their genre, but Gilmore plays like he's on autopilot. And "Comfortably Numb" is the same long boring solo broken into two parts. Puhleeeeeze.
You call that a long solo?
I dont think CN is his best work but I do love those solos and the huge contrast in mood between the two. I remember some stupid list from Pitchfork (indie elitists unite) included CN as one of the worst guitar solos of all time and cited Gilmour's use of studio splicing as the reason. How stupid is that?
So what if Gilmour wasnt a wild improviser? From Meddle and onwards Floyd had always been about what they could do in the studio, not what they could do live. They were a studio band. And seriously, Gilmour made CN from a bunch of random licks he recorded, but it's not like he had any trouble reproducing it live, not at all. Talk about a ridiculous reason to call such a great solo one of the worst. But Pitchfork has always been a bunch of pretentious t**ts.
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
Posted: May 28 2010 at 17:35
rogerthat wrote:
Captain Clutch wrote:
Each of them was the best man for the job they did, but let's face it guys: Led Zep is a band that is far more based on the guitar, and therefore Page plays a more significant role in his band
Not really, it's based far more on distorted guitar, is what I would say. Yes, keyboards have very little role to play in Led Zep compared to Floyd, but Gilmour was still the most important link in Floyd and Floyd were mainly a guitar based band too. Anyway, my vote goes to Gilmour. I like Page the arranger but Page the guitarist, both riffs and solos wise, doesn't do much for me, would rather Iommi and Blackmore respectively. I am not nearly as fond of the Comfortably Numb solo as many Floyd fans seem to be. I prefer his output from Meddle through to Dark Side.
a) you're incorrect about Floyd being mainly a guitar-based band. This was only true on Their first 2 albums and on The Wall (to a lesser extent)
b) David Gilmore did barely any song writing for Floyd, and Jimmy Page wrote EVERYTHING for Zep
Gilmore's role is more subtle and minimalist. Nobody could possibly replace what Page did for LZ
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
Posted: May 28 2010 at 19:56
Hi,
Terrible survey ... and one that really distorts things a lot.
Jimmy deserves a lot more credit for his work than a lot of guitarists out there, specially when you consider that he is a TRUE musician and does KNOW music very well ... and you can see this in the film "It's Gonna Get Loud" ... and in case you didn't see it ... check this out ... you know who the man up on him was? And guess who brought this guitarist into the Yardbirds?
G Gomelsky ... who went on to do Aphrodite's Child, Gentle Giant and so many others and is one of the massive fathers of Progressive Music and we should start a ... Hall of Fame for it!
David Gilmour, in creativity and expression is not in my book as important as Jimmy is to the history of rock music with Led Zeppelin. Pink Floyd deserves its name in there, of course, but as a band, not as any single member.
It was Jimmy that helped open the way with a few other folks, and David is second generation by comparison and to me not even as good as Mr. Gurley in Big Brother and the Holding Company, who pretty much is the father of the blowout guitar bomb! And if you dont sit through Ball and Chain ... you don't like a guitar having a duet with a voice!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
Status: Offline
Points: 771
Posted: May 28 2010 at 20:30
The Quiet One wrote:
Obscured by Clouds is my favorite Floyd album, and that song is superb!
I used to love it too. But I'm 51 now, and for me it has a lot less to offer than it used to. On hindsight, I think I may have been kidding myself because my roommate had Meddle, and I was jealous and didn't want him to have a better album than me. I truly did not mean to offend anyone. I really thought it was a good example of what I was saying. I am glad you are loving it! When you are 51, if you don't love it anymore, then put flowers on my grave. But if you do, well then, I guess you'll just have to piss on it!
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
Posted: May 28 2010 at 20:35
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Obscured by Clouds is my favorite Floyd album, and that song is superb!
I used to love it too. But I'm 51 now, and for me it has a lot less to offer than it used to. On hindsight, I think I may have been kidding myself because my roommate had Meddle, and I was jealous and didn't want him to have a better album than me. I truly did not mean to offend anyone. I really thought it was a good example of what I was saying. I am glad you are loving it! When you are 51, if you don't love it anymore, then put flowers on my grave. But if you do, well then, I guess you'll just have to piss on it!
You didn't offend me, it's ok.
BTW: my dad, who is 53, still loves Obscured by Clouds
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: May 28 2010 at 22:00
Captain Clutch wrote:
a) you're incorrect about Floyd being mainly a guitar-based band. This was only true on Their first 2 albums and on The Wall (to a lesser extent)
Hardly. Meddle through to Animals, apart from Wall of course, all have Gilmour playing a very important role. Sure, Wright gets a lot of time in too, but Gilmour's solos are more often than not the centerpiece of their songs and most of their songs revolve around guitar chords/riffs (as opposed to Banks propelling Genesis songs with keyboard chords). In fact, one reason why Floyd's progginess may often be disputed is building a song around guitar riffs and a solo in the middle is a typical rock structure.
Captain Clutch wrote:
b) David Gilmore did barely any song writing for Floyd, and Jimmy Page wrote EVERYTHING for Zep
Gilmore's role is more subtle and minimalist. Nobody could possibly replace what Page did for LZ
He did more than barely write songs but there's no doubt about that Floyd became more and more a Waters enterprise. However, I thought the question was on their role as players and not songwriters? Because as composer, Page certainly was way more important for Zep than Gilmour for Floyd. You said Zep is a guitar based band and therefore he plays a far more important role in the band, so I interpreted likewise.
Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
Status: Offline
Points: 4395
Posted: May 29 2010 at 19:03
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Terrible survey ... and one that really distorts things a lot.
Jimmy deserves a lot more credit for his work than a lot of guitarists out there, specially when you consider that he is a TRUE musician and does KNOW music very well ... and you can see this in the film "It's Gonna Get Loud" ... and in case you didn't see it ... check this out ... you know who the man up on him was? And guess who brought this guitarist into the Yardbirds?
G Gomelsky ... who went on to do Aphrodite's Child, Gentle Giant and so many others and is one of the massive fathers of Progressive Music and we should start a ... Hall of Fame for it!
David Gilmour, in creativity and expression is not in my book as important as Jimmy is to the history of rock music with Led Zeppelin. Pink Floyd deserves its name in there, of course, but as a band, not as any single member.
It was Jimmy that helped open the way with a few other folks, and David is second generation by comparison and to me not even as good as Mr. Gurley in Big Brother and the Holding Company, who pretty much is the father of the blowout guitar bomb! And if you dont sit through Ball and Chain ... you don't like a guitar having a duet with a voice!
Terrible survey? I simply asked people who they like more. Is there any reason you had to dig so deeply into this? It's a simple asking of peoples opinion, nothing more.
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
Posted: May 29 2010 at 21:10
Captain Clutch wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Captain Clutch wrote:
Each of them was the best man for the job they did, but let's face it guys: Led Zep is a band that is far more based on the guitar, and therefore Page plays a more significant role in his band
Not really, it's based far more on distorted guitar, is what I would say. Yes, keyboards have very little role to play in Led Zep compared to Floyd, but Gilmour was still the most important link in Floyd and Floyd were mainly a guitar based band too. Anyway, my vote goes to Gilmour. I like Page the arranger but Page the guitarist, both riffs and solos wise, doesn't do much for me, would rather Iommi and Blackmore respectively. I am not nearly as fond of the Comfortably Numb solo as many Floyd fans seem to be. I prefer his output from Meddle through to Dark Side.
a) you're incorrect about Floyd being mainly a guitar-based band. This was only true on Their first 2 albums and on The Wall (to a lesser extent)
b) David Gilmore did barely any song writing for Floyd, and Jimmy Page wrote EVERYTHING for Zep
Gilmore's role is more subtle and minimalist. Nobody could possibly replace what Page did for LZ
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
Posted: May 29 2010 at 21:28
I like both, Gilmour play is simply superb, he have a trademark tone that is very distinguible of other guitarrist and that sensation of despair in his solos and his guitar licks in mny floyd songs.
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David Gilmour vs. Jimmy Page
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JLocke wrote:
Obscured by Clouds is my favorite Floyd album, and that song is superb!
I truly did not mean to offend anyone. I really thought it was a good example of what I was saying. I am glad you are loving it! When you are 51, if you don't love it anymore, then put flowers on my grave. But if you do, well then, I guess you'll just have to piss on it! 
You didn't offend me, it's ok.
