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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 18016
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Topic: Now I know who NOT to listen to. Posted: May 26 2010 at 22:55 |
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
For a terrible moment I thought you meant me but i havent heard it yet!
I doubt its worth 2 stars from what i have read though
Atomic Scott is my name |
Naw I meant Rushfan4
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
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Points: 14258
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 22:53 |
Captain Clutch wrote:
Repner wrote:
Depends on the type of person that reviews it.
Like say there is a death metal album that is generally very well liked for example. Then someone who hates death metal comes along and gives it a negative review, purely for the reason that it's death metal. That's the sort of thing I would ignore, if theres a review by someone who hates the genre even though a fan of that style might consider it a great addition to the category
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(Ahem) Scott giving Blackwater Park 2 stars (ahem)
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For a terrible moment I thought you meant me but i havent heard it yet!
I doubt its worth 2 stars from what i have read though
Atomic Scott is my name
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 22:15 |
While I HATE ALL DEATH METAL BEFORE I HEAR IT type reviews are irritating, they do serve a purpose in terms of making the rating reflect the opinion of the community in general. Without them (and this happens for some more obscure albums that haven't crossed over outside of their sub-genre to the attention of the prog scene in general) the rating skews unnaturally high, guaranteeing a disappointing listen for someone who picks it up because of the rating.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 19:29 |
Repner wrote:
Depends on the type of person that reviews it.
Like say there is a death metal album that is generally very well liked for example. Then someone who hates death metal comes along and gives it a negative review, purely for the reason that it's death metal. That's the sort of thing I would ignore, if theres a review by someone who hates the genre even though a fan of that style might consider it a great addition to the category
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(Ahem) Scott giving Blackwater Park 2 stars (ahem)
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
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Points: 16715
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 17:28 |
boo boo wrote:
Whenever someone uses "charming" they use it in a condescending manner. But most reviews I read anywhere have a condescending tone.
And of course every website has a few people whose tastes are the exact opposite of mine, this one is no exception. |
Do you mean they're intending charming as a backhanded insult? Because I've never seen that as the case, but maybe there were more levels of irony in what I was reading than I was aware of.
seventhsojourn wrote:
Well, I regularly use at least half the adjectives from Henry's list including the dreaded ''c'' word  However when I describe something as ''charming'' I certainly don't mean it in a condescending manner, although I accept that's how it comes across to you. At least Henry knows not to buy based on any of my recommendations I suppose. |
Well I don't hate all music that is melodic or accessible, but if somebody bothers to point it out as a special trait of the album, then it's probably not going to be to my taste.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 18064
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 16:24 |
Hi,
The major issues with reviews is ... what are these reviewers telling you?
If you can tell what they are saying, the rest is easy.
So if you read the reviews in USA Today, you know that you can puke more often than not. Because the reviews are imaginary and love to compare things to an invisible idea and concept that no one can define or understand ... and the end result is ... you know nothing about the music, or the reviewer. Check that ... you know that particular reviewer is a fan and kisser ... might as well be called a groupie!
In general, the majority of reviews in PA are not bad, and I would say that 95% of them rank above 66%. The only ones I have an issue with is when someone states that it is not progressive enough, or will say that this is too much sounding like King Crimson, and ... you lose the ability to listen to that band on its own. I like Anekdotten and such, and everytime I sit there and listen to it, I don't hear King Crimson. I hear a much more concise band and much more interested in their expression than King Crimson, that for all their work, all in all, they were not cohesive and their adventurousness and work varied tremendously and that was more related to the individual personalities and styles than it was about "King Crimson" ... which means that I would never use that comparison! Anekdotten is actually much closer sounding to the styles of a lot of music in their area, that are inspired by keyboards, classical music and a guitar! And KC never even showed the classical element out front, and I think that was intentional. But, no one can discuss the experimental side of KC very well either, and even comment on a process for it!
It's not easy. I have reviews for a lot of music, but I am actually afraid to share them here. Why? Because my reviews are about the music, and how I feel about that music, and from that you can decide if you want to hear it or not. Some of you might like to be told that it is neo-prog and you are going to check it out ... I don't! ... neo-prog and any other "description" is an oxymoron, specially when at least two of those styles are simply an effect or two used on the instrumentation! And the other reason is that this board is afraid to discuss other music that fits the "progressive" area, but is not "popular" ... so we can talk Rush, ELP. KC, Genesis all day, but no one is big enough to discuss Egberto Gismonti! Or almost any artist in the ECM label, most of which are so experimental and different as to defy the description of "creativity" ... but some will just dismiss it as "jazz" and never hear any of it! Most of it is not even jazz! It's music!
Another example ... describing Guru Guru ... and trying to compare it to ... Rush? Yeah ... or some other rock trio out there.
In general, the stuff that is on the edge is always difficult for most reviewers. I tend to use a lot of the quotidian (really big word too!) elements around the music, the artist and the time, and that is something that is sorely missed in the definition of "progressive" that would actually explain the music a lot better than otherwise ... it's sort of a culmination of the desire in the arts from the hippied days, without the drugs (not necessarily of course!) ... but we have to create a separation so hard that we can not even conceive of The Doors as progressive, or The (early) Grateful Dead as progressive, and in so many cases , these were major influences to so many out there. And so many others.
Depends on how you read things ... are you reading because you enjoy the music ... or because you are bored with "prog metal"? ... or because you are no longer satisfied with Dream Theater ... see the problem? ... it's not about the music anymore, then. And reviews won't satisfy you because you are looking for something that you like ... not someone else necessarily!
Edited by moshkito - May 26 2010 at 17:12
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18064
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 16:05 |
Falx wrote:
lucas wrote:
Well, I think I'm in the minority disliking Opeth and Gentle Giant (bands which albums are usually highly rated in PA).
| Gentle Giant are an acquired taste... have you acquired it yet? 
=F=
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Not to mention that they even have an album telling you that ... so if you didn't get the idea ... why you listening?
(Sorry ... couldn't help it! ... but some people out there are intelligent and know what they were doing in music and art and what not!)
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 15:22 |
boo boo wrote:
Whenever someone uses "charming" they use it in a condescending manner. But most reviews I read anywhere have a condescending tone.
And of course every website has a few people whose tastes are the exact opposite of mine, this one is no exception. |
Your post is very charming. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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seventhsojourn
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Joined: December 11 2009
Location: .
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Points: 4006
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 15:16 |
boo boo wrote:
Whenever someone uses "charming" they use it in a condescending manner. But most reviews I read anywhere have a condescending tone.
And of course every website has a few people whose tastes are the exact opposite of mine, this one is no exception. |
Well, I regularly use at least half the adjectives from Henry's list including the dreaded ''c'' word  However when I describe something as ''charming'' I certainly don't mean it in a condescending manner, although I accept that's how it comes across to you. At least Henry knows not to buy based on any of my recommendations I suppose.
boo boo, I thought I would look at your reviews... 2 ratings but no reviews. Hmmm... don't think I want to go there.
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 14:33 |
Easy Livin wrote:
A good review should allow the reader to make their own mind up. The reviewer may recommend an album, but the supporting text should give the reader a good indication of whether or not they might like it. |
Very true.  There are a few reviewers that I disagree with on almost EVERYTHING, but their descriptions of the albums let me know that I'm probably not going to like it in the first place.
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boo boo
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Location: United States
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 14:23 |
Whenever someone uses "charming" they use it in a condescending manner. But most reviews I read anywhere have a condescending tone.
And of course every website has a few people whose tastes are the exact opposite of mine, this one is no exception.
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Nightshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 210
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 13:39 |
Critics are to do the following:
1. Praise musicians who make good music
2. Metaphorically spit on musicians who make bad music.
3. NEVER, EVER regard the FCC or any such organization as an authoritative force with power.
4. Exercise their freedom of speech like no other has ever done before.
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Repner
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Joined: September 16 2007
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 203
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 13:22 |
Depends on the type of person that reviews it.
Like say there is a death metal album that is generally very well liked for example. Then someone who hates death metal comes along and gives it a negative review, purely for the reason that it's death metal. That's the sort of thing I would ignore, if theres a review by someone who hates the genre even though a fan of that style might consider it a great addition to the category
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The Truth
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Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 21795
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 12:10 |
It is a good idea for a thread  I'll check back later
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Location: Australia
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Points: 14258
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 10:14 |
Great thread!
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 22:37 |
rushfan4 wrote:
And of course, Zorn is most definitely not charming. |
What about O'o? Buncha songs about lil' birdies
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 22:37 |
Falx wrote:
I think "charming" is just a euphemism for "quaint". Genesis's debut album is "charming"...
=F=
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That sounds about right. I don't like that quant, precious tweeness of a lot of indie (or, in the prog realm, Gentle Giant), it's just infuriating.
Scott, you might be surprised, Zorn has written quite a bit of pop music over the years.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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rushfan4
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 22:31 |
And of course, Zorn is most definitely not charming.
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Falx
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 05 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 859
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 22:30 |
I think "charming" is just a euphemism for "quaint". Genesis's debut album is "charming"...
=F=
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"You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor
"It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 22:25 |
I don't know of anybody who has my exact opposite taste, partly because I don't spend much time reading random reviews on the front page, but there are certain positive adjectives that people often use that tell me I'm probably not going to like it; such as, melodic, accessible, straightforward/straight-ahead, direct, minimal, hypnotizing, charming, muscular, atmospheric, and ambient. I particularly hate charming: I'm not even sure what it means in a musical context, but I've never liked an album that somebody else called charming. Although it's not used all that often, so maybe I'm not being fair.
Edited by Henry Plainview - May 25 2010 at 22:32
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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