Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
SilverEclipse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 123
|
Posted: May 03 2009 at 09:53 |
Although I do like reading his reviews, because they're possibly the most comprehensive on the 'net and you don't have to shuffle through tons of crappy, generic reader reviews, I really, really disagree with the guy on many points, especially prog.
First, his definition of prog is EXTREMELY narrow. Seriously, the guy really only acknowledges a handful of bands as actually being prog rock. His most conspicuous absence is Pink Floyd, whom he categorizes as "art rock". Now this in itself isn't bad, but he says they really only did ONE prog album (Atom Heart Mother), then focused on more simplictic song structures. So, let's see....
-One Of These Days, a pure instrumental, building jam -the 23-minutes, multi-part Echoes -the Dark Side Of The Moon, originally conceived as one 40 minute piece -the nearly half hour long Shine On You Crazy Diamond, with reoccuring themes and all -the 3 song Animals album
... are apparently, to Mr. Starostin, simplistic and un-progressive. Really?
Second, as much as he wants to keep an open mind, he really has a stimga towards prog. I mean, two of the five criteria he judges music on are resonance (which to him is emotional resonance, and that is purely subjective based on the person), and another category.... "adequacy".... and I really don't even know what the heck that means except every prog band seems to get a horrible score in that department.
Third, he has a very pessimistic attitude towards music in general, basically saying rock has run it's course and that there is nothing left to do with it. When it comes to prog, he feels that prog had given out everything it could give by.... wait for it.....
.......................1973!!!!!!!!! Dude, 1973? So several great Yes, King Crimson, and Pink Floyd albums are just thrown out, along with neo-prog, nu-prog, prog-metal, etc etc etc.
Basically, he takes originality and puts such a ridiculously high value upon it that the natural process of bands influencing one another, which most accept, disqualifies him from even giving a chance to 95% of rock bands in existence.
Overall, I like the site and his opinions are interesting at times, but the guy is too pessimistic, and overall, I don't care what he says, he doesn't GET prog and he never will.
|
"and if the band your in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon"
|
 |
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: May 03 2009 at 10:13 |
^^^
He's better than some other 'general' reviewers, especially Mark Prindle, and particularly in his approach to prog. I got the impression that he is actually a lot more sympathetic to the idea of making long rock songs with keyboards and jazz/classical influences than you'd expect people who are not hardcore into prog to be. He's one of the few who has said that punk replacing prog was not a good thing in rock's development and I am not sure even I would agree with him about that. Sure, his understanding of prog would not be as sharp or comprehensive as say yours, but I don't think he claims to be anything more than a casual prog fan. The casual prog fan is a rare breed and we should be happy such a breed even exists, it's better than the usual love-hate circle jerk.
|
 |
Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
|
Posted: May 03 2009 at 13:27 |
rogerthat wrote:
^^^
He's better than some other 'general' reviewers, especially Mark Prindle, and particularly in his approach to prog. I got the impression that he is actually a lot more sympathetic to the idea of making long rock songs with keyboards and jazz/classical influences than you'd expect people who are not hardcore into prog to be. He's one of the few who has said that punk replacing prog was not a good thing in rock's development and I am not sure even I would agree with him about that. Sure, his understanding of prog would not be as sharp or comprehensive as say yours, but I don't think he claims to be anything more than a casual prog fan. The casual prog fan is a rare breed and we should be happy such a breed even exists, it's better than the usual love-hate circle jerk. |
But would you really want someone who hated you to partake in that circle jerk? Anyway. I like the guy's reviews. I could say he has influenced my reviews, somewhat. He and I have completely opposite feelings toward hard rock, though. I disagree with what he says quite often.
|
 |
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: May 03 2009 at 19:59 |
Alitare wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
^^^
He's better than some other 'general' reviewers, especially Mark Prindle, and particularly in his approach to prog. I got the impression that he is actually a lot more sympathetic to the idea of making long rock songs with keyboards and jazz/classical influences than you'd expect people who are not hardcore into prog to be. He's one of the few who has said that punk replacing prog was not a good thing in rock's development and I am not sure even I would agree with him about that. Sure, his understanding of prog would not be as sharp or comprehensive as say yours, but I don't think he claims to be anything more than a casual prog fan. The casual prog fan is a rare breed and we should be happy such a breed even exists, it's better than the usual love-hate circle jerk. |
But would you really want someone who hated you to partake in that circle jerk?
Anyway. I like the guy's reviews. I could say he has influenced my reviews, somewhat. He and I have completely opposite feelings toward hard rock, though. I disagree with what he says quite often.
|
I am afraid I don't quite follow you in that first sentence. What sort of guy would hate me because I liked prog and he hated it? What I meant anyway was that people either love prog and have listened to tons of it or they outright hate it and refuse to entertain the thought that some prog might be good music. Starostin is a little more open minded in that respect; actually even though his understanding of metal too seems rather feeble, he has gone and tried a few bands..interesting!
|
 |
SonicDeath10
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 282
|
Posted: April 02 2010 at 13:57 |
Always been a big fan of good old George: he really got me into a lot of cool music. Say what you will, but he is really extensive on his site about all aspects of rock music and not just progressive rock. I got into Budgie, Caravan, Renaissance, the Left Bank, Procol Harum and PFM through his site. I also got very interested in Jethro Tull, Yes and Frank Zappa as a result of his reviews. The fact that I own every Jethro Tull, Yes and Frank Zappa album (give or take a few with Frank) shows how helpful he's been to my taste. I actually can't count the bands I've gotten into because of him. I don't always agree with him but I think he's always intelligent in what he says. And HE IS A HE and he's not dead but his father did die recently, one thing that kind of stopped his reviews from coming. Any man that speaks as many languages as him (read his bio again) has to have some intelligence going on upstairs. He's working on the Babel Project aka the language project that is attempting to find the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE from which all languages originated.
|
"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
|
 |
SonicDeath10
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 282
|
Posted: April 02 2010 at 13:59 |
Sorry to sound like a raving "fan boy" of the guy but I've been reading him for nine years and I honestly can't imagine what my taste would be like if I hadn't started reading him. Probably a lot more like Mark Prindle: as it is, I'm a mix between them and John McFerrin.
|
"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
|
 |
Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
|
Posted: April 05 2010 at 16:57 |
SonicDeath10 wrote:
Sorry to sound like a raving "fan boy" of the guy but I've been reading him for nine years and I honestly can't imagine what my taste would be like if I hadn't started reading him. Probably a lot more like Mark Prindle: as it is, I'm a mix between them and John McFerrin. |
|
|
 |
boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
|
Posted: May 25 2010 at 05:59 |
I have observed his site a lot lately. He seems to know his rock history pretty well, just making a few screw ups every now and then. But like every critic he has a pretty irritating elitist attitude. Though I guess the softies aren't as interesting to people and I perfectly understand that.
For one I stand his bias towards the "pioneers" and against newer rock music.
He's not too biased against prog and even defends it from it's harsher critics a lot of times so that I can appreciate. I'm more bothered by how obsessed he is with a band's originality and he seems to equate originality with creating a new subgenre, as in if a band hasn't created their own genre then it doesn't matter how unique they are, they aren't original at all.
And also giving Yes a 2 in diversity and The Rolling Stones a 5 is pretty ridiculous. Oh and I'm a Uriah Heep fan. 
Still he is one of the better music critics (not saying much). A hell of a lot better than Prindle that's for sure, that guy is a lunatic and his reviews always devolve in ridiculously incoherent rants and what I assume is an attempt at humor. Why is that guy so popular? His reviews are absolutely terrible.
|
 |
tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
|
Posted: May 25 2010 at 06:19 |
I really like his reviews, I generally agree with most of them. too bad his site isn't updated anymore (or at least no new band bio's or new albums are added anymore).
Love how he bashes Uriah Heep 
|
I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
|
 |
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:58 |
There are a lot of assertions in general about music he makes that I don't agree with at all, in particular how he evaluates melody and diversity (in which Lennon solo and Dylan are better writers of melody than Stevie Wonder  ). Or his tendency to dismiss anything he cannot immediately grasp as dissonant.  He also said somewhere that a really great album should not have to be heard half a dozen times to appreciate it, and I disagree with that too. BUT he generally expresses these biased views in a polite and reasonable tone, and never pretending that they are facts, just that that's the way he perceives music. Which is why his reviews are easy on the eye.
|
 |
tarkus1980
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 29 2010
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 233
|
Posted: May 25 2010 at 12:22 |
I like George, so much so I was often accused in years past of being a "George Clone." Our music tastes synch up about 80% of the time, and I'm not going to lie and pretend my writing wasn't, at least in the early stages of my site, very heavily influenced by his style (I've tried to purge the more blatant George-isms from my writing since then, though I still think "Banksynths" is a hilarious word and I've tried my best to keep it alive). I don't read him much nowadays, though; there's really not much point at this juncture, mostly because I consumed his site so heavily in the first half of the 00's.
"I really like his reviews, I generally agree with most of them. too bad his site isn't updated anymore (or at least no new band bio's or new albums are added anymore). "
Not true. He's doing all of his writing now in a new format linked from the main page.
|
"History of Rock Written by the Losers."
|
 |
boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 09:01 |
Yeah I'm not fond of his Tony Banks or Gilmour bashing. And now everyone has to use words like "banksynths" and "dentistry" ad nauseum until I can't take it anymore.
I also hate his rating system and disagree with a huge portion of it. Giving Black Sabbath a D and ABBA a C? Wuh?
Edited by boo boo - May 26 2010 at 09:02
|
 |
tarkus1980
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 29 2010
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 233
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 10:00 |
George doesn't like his old rating system much anymore either. In his new reviews, he's just giving everything a "thumbs up" or a "thumbs down."
ABBA is wonderful.
|
"History of Rock Written by the Losers."
|
 |
SonicDeath10
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 282
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 10:30 |
I haven't looked too much at his old site.
I'd agree about ABBA. Hardly ever listen to them any more though. Good music is good music, regardless of whether it has 17 minutes of guitar solos or not. Example: I bought five Kraftwerk albums, four Miles Davis albums and two Todd Rundgren albums (Runt and Todd).
Diversion: Todd gets no respect.
|
"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
|
 |
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 11:04 |
I wouldn't rate ABBA over Black Sabbath, but I don't necessarily find George doing so so objectionable too. I don't really know why rock fans are obliged to hate ABBA or something, but that's the feeling I got from reading some of the comments on his ABBA page. On that note, I do think he is a little impatient and harsh with metal, but it's not a beast everyone comes to terms with so that's not so surprising.
|
 |
boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 11:21 |
He is REALLY biased against metal. And against most newer forms of music in general.
Though really, he doesn't bother me too much, his arrogance is compensated for by at least not being stupid, I can't say the same for the great majority of people who post comments on his site, they're just arrogant AND stupid.
Edited by boo boo - May 26 2010 at 11:23
|
 |
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 11:25 |
Yeah, he doesn't pretend to be a know it all on metal or that people who like it are daft. He admits honestly that he is not a specialist and doesn't really dig it but can still find some albums to like in it.
|
 |
boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 16:53 |
Well I dunno the guy has said a lot of comments about how "there are very few metal bands who aren't really dumb", not an exact quote but statements that are just as personal, he seems to think metal really is a stupid genre for stupid people. It goes beyond ignorant, I think the guy has a personal problem with metalheads that stems from very troubling childhood memories.
His biases against certain bands are very evident too.
|
 |
UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
|
Posted: May 26 2010 at 17:39 |
I like his reviews (and I'm pretty sure it's a guy.) It's obvious that he has biases, but it's still nice that there is a critic out there who puts Prog on a high pedestal.
What do you all here think of Piero Scaruffi? He's a pretty tough critic, favoring mostly experimental records, although he does hold some Prog on a high pedestal (mainly Krautrock and Canterbury.) He's never given an album a perfect 10/10 and only a handful of others have garnered 9-9.5/10's. The album he considers to be the all-time greatest rock album has always remained Trout Mask Replica, branding it the only rock album of the 20th century worth hearing (which is strange considering the money he must spend on Rock CD's to write all those reviews . He's extremely influential on the internet, with some user-made lists on Best Ever Albums and Rate Your Music pretty much copying his and arranging it a little bit.  I also think he is the cause of the resurgence of Trout Mask Replica's and other experimental rock bands' popularity. He's also famous for hating the Beatles and refuting their influence on Pop music.
Personally, I think he's a little pretentious, but he does offer some interesting insights that can change the way you view Pop music. It does annoy me that other than the albums in the 7.5-9.5 range, almost all the others are between 4-6, which puts some phenomenal albums among some real stinkers. His website is mostly in Italian, though, so for the most part you can only see the ratings unless you know the language.
|
 |
boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
|
Posted: May 27 2010 at 15:36 |
UndercoverBoy wrote:
I like his reviews (and I'm pretty sure it's a guy.) It's obvious that he has biases, but it's still nice that there is a critic out there who puts Prog on a high pedestal.
What do you all here think of Piero Scaruffi? He's a pretty tough critic, favoring mostly experimental records, although he does hold some Prog on a high pedestal (mainly Krautrock and Canterbury.) He's never given an album a perfect 10/10 and only a handful of others have garnered 9-9.5/10's. The album he considers to be the all-time greatest rock album has always remained Trout Mask Replica, branding it the only rock album of the 20th century worth hearing (which is strange considering the money he must spend on Rock CD's to write all those reviews . He's extremely influential on the internet, with some user-made lists on Best Ever Albums and Rate Your Music pretty much copying his and arranging it a little bit.  I also think he is the cause of the resurgence of Trout Mask Replica's and other experimental rock bands' popularity. He's also famous for hating the Beatles and refuting their influence on Pop music.
Personally, I think he's a little pretentious, but he does offer some interesting insights that can change the way you view Pop music. It does annoy me that other than the albums in the 7.5-9.5 range, almost all the others are between 4-6, which puts some phenomenal albums among some real stinkers. His website is mostly in Italian, though, so for the most part you can only see the ratings unless you know the language. |
A little pretentious?
I really can't stand that guy at all.
Though NO critic is as bad as Christgau or Sheffield. No one.
|
 |