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Lizzy 
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 Posted: May 22 2010 at 19:04 |
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Anderson is one of my favourite vocalists.
I know that Hammil is possibly the best prog vocalist, but to answer the poll's question - Jon Anderson suits my tastes better.
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Property of Queen Productions... 
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Anirml
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 19:14 |
Jon Anderson is the perfect singer for Yes
Peter Hammil is the perfect singer for VDGG
Jon's singing and view on life suits me the most.
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boo boo
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 19:33 |
Hammill is a better singer technically I guess but I prefer Jon, alto singers are pretty darn rare and his voice is a big part of what makes Yes a unique band. His voice has gotten a little weaker with age but still, I'm not sold on that Benoit guy, it's not Yes without Jon, ok, Drama was excellent, but Horn just kinda sounded like Jon, he didn't really imitate him.
Hammill is more emotive, and he uses those kinda vocals to excellent effect, but he dominates his music while Anderson uses his voice like just another instrument in the band. And it's pretty rare that the singer is the most underrated member of a band but in Jon's case that's especially true.
 rogerthat wrote:
No contest, Hammill by miles, Jon is one of the most boring singers I have had to bear with (because Yes are so awesome), in and outside of prog. |
I have NEVER understood how people can love a band while saying they can't stand the vocals. Especially because the vocal harmonies are a very important part of Yes.
Edited by boo boo - May 22 2010 at 19:41
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JemJem714
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 19:46 |
boo boo wrote:
Hammill is a better singer technically I guess but I prefer Jon, alto singers are pretty darn rare and his voice is a big part of what makes Yes a unique band. His voice has gotten a little weaker with age but still, I'm not sold on that Benoit guy, it's not Yes without Jon, ok, Drama was excellent, but Horn just kinda sounded like Jon, he didn't really imitate him.
Hammill is more emotive, and he uses those kinda vocals to excellent effect, but he dominates his music while Anderson uses his voice like just another instrument in the band. And it's pretty rare that the singer is the most underrated member of a band but in Jon's case that's especially true.
rogerthat wrote:
No contest, Hammill by miles, Jon is one of the most boring singers I have had to bear with (because Yes are so awesome), in and outside of prog. |
I have NEVER understood how people can love a band while saying they can't stand the vocals. Especially because the vocal harmonies are a very important part of Yes. |
Yeah I don't really get that either. For me there's no competition here. I do like Yes, but Mr Anderson's voice does get a bit boring and annoying sometimes. Hammill, on the other hand, has quite possibly the most amazing sounding vocals that I have ever heard, in or out of prog.
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progkidjoel
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 20:53 |
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Anderson has an amazing voice, whilst for me, Hammil sounds incredibly melodramatic in an really forced and unenjoyable way 90% of the time.
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Chris S
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 21:11 |
Jon Anderson by a zillion billion miles x space folding x infinity 
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:05 |
boo boo wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
No contest, Hammill by miles, Jon is one of the most boring singers I have had to bear with (because Yes are so awesome), in and outside of prog. |
I have NEVER understood how people can love a band while saying they can't stand the vocals. Especially because the vocal harmonies are a very important part of Yes. |
You very well can because you can listen to Howe's chords and melodies, Wakeman's interludes, Bruford's punishing fills and so on and so forth. You can also appreciate how beautifully the vocal harmony was written without necessarily liking the way it was sung. Gentle Giant is another good example and again I don't like the vocals much but the music ...  Unless the singer is really, really good AND the construction of the song too emphasises the performance of the singer (i.e. the tone, nuances and not just lots of vocal harmonies) I don't usually pay much attention to vocals in prog. Another example: I don't like Wetton's singing on Red album at all but it is my favourite prog rock album. I just ignore the vocals or concentrate on their compositional function...so simple!
Edited by rogerthat - May 22 2010 at 22:05
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BlindGuard
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:36 |
Jon Anderson or God?
i go with god :]
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boo boo
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:37 |
progkidjoel wrote:
Anderson has an amazing voice, whilst for me, Hammil sounds incredibly melodramatic in an really forced and unenjoyable way 90% of the time. |
Hammill can be pretty hammy but it's often in a way that's quite entertaining and suitable to the music.
People rag on Jon for not emoting, but that isn't true, on some songs he really does pour it out but a lot of times being a "powerhouse" isn't his goal at all. He doesn't write "personal" songs nor does he really use his voice as a lead instrument but rather just another instrument that interplays with everything else. And like every other member of the group he has moments where he shines. I can't imagine Heart of the Sunrise or And You And I or Revealing Science of God or Onward being sung by anyone else, no, I can't have any of that nonsense.
And to say he's not even an important member of the band is absolutely ridiculous, considering how many great Yes songs (or great sections from Yes songs) were written solely by him, his greatest contribution is the songwriting and I have absolutely no doubt that he's the best songwriter in the group, and I'd say Sunhillow is the best solo effort of any Yes member. That's not to say Wakeman, Howe or Squire aren't great songwriters as they have some great solo stuff of their own. But I think Sunhillow comes the closest to actually sounding like a Yes album, not that it really does, it's pretty unique.
So because Jon won't be involved with the upcoming Yes album my expectations are very low.
Edited by boo boo - May 22 2010 at 22:42
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:38 |
rogerthat wrote:
boo boo wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
No contest, Hammill by miles, Jon is one of the most boring singers I have had to bear with (because Yes are so awesome), in and outside of prog. |
I have NEVER understood how people can love a band while saying they can't stand the vocals. Especially because the vocal harmonies are a very important part of Yes. |
You very well can because you can listen to Howe's chords and melodies, Wakeman's interludes, Bruford's punishing fills and so on and so forth. You can also appreciate how beautifully the vocal harmony was written without necessarily liking the way it was sung. Gentle Giant is another good example and again I don't like the vocals much but the music ... Unless the singer is really, really good AND the construction of the song too emphasises the performance of the singer (i.e. the tone, nuances and not just lots of vocal harmonies) I don't usually pay much attention to vocals in prog. Another example: I don't like Wetton's singing on Red album at all but it is my favourite prog rock album. I just ignore the vocals or concentrate on their compositional function...so simple!
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Unless it's an "A Capella" track, I don't see the problem neither.
I love the composition of every pre Going for the One and Drama album (well maybe Tales not), the instrumental performance of guys like Howe, Bruford, Squire, White, Moraz Wakemsn, Kaye, etc.
But simply can't stand Jon Andersons voice, too acute and IMHO with no work or technique, I use to compare him with David Surkamp, who sounds like Geddy Lee with helium, but the guy exploits his timbre and with technique adds a vibratto very similar to Edith Piaff.
Jon just throws his voice, and his lyrics are terrible.
I can't stand that.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 22 2010 at 22:46
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:42 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
But simply can't stand Jon Andersons voice, too acute and IMGHO with no work or technique, I use to compare him with David Surkamp, who sounds like Geddy Lee with helium, but the guy exploits his timbre and with technique adds a vibratto very similar to Edith Piaff.
Jon just throws his voice, and his lyrics are terrible.
I can't stand that.
Iván |
Indeed I don't find much to appreciate anyway in Jon's singing at least with Yes (haven't heard his solo work and in hurry to). He just has a soft voice that at times sounds beautiful and reasonably good vibrato control. But his attack remains flat and predictable song after song.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:49 |
rogerthat wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
But simply can't stand Jon Andersons voice, too acute and IMGHO with no work or technique, I use to compare him with David Surkamp, who sounds like Geddy Lee with helium, but the guy exploits his timbre and with technique adds a vibratto very similar to Edith Piaff.
Jon just throws his voice, and his lyrics are terrible.
I can't stand that.
Iván |
Indeed I don't find much to appreciate anyway in Jon's singing at least with Yes (haven't heard his solo work and in hurry to). He just has a soft voice that at times sounds beautiful and reasonably good vibrato control. But his attack remains flat and predictable song after song.
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I don't even find any vibratto in Jon's voice, it's just so flat. IHe sounds well in the most rocking tracks as "Your's is no Disgrace", because the instruments cover him, but if Relayer wasn't that great, I wouldn't even listen it because Soon.
And his solo work..........I have just rated Olias with one star.
But even worst, when Jon came to Lima as soloist, I left the concert after 30 minutes, only done this one time before when Genesis started to sing Illegal Alien.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 22 2010 at 22:51
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:52 |
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By vibrato control, I meant he doesn't have an excessively wide vibrato which I find an annoying quality in singing. That's about the only redeeming aspect of his singing. It is less painful in the studio but on Yessongs his lack of energy becomes very hard to endure.
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boo boo
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 22:57 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
boo boo wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
No contest, Hammill by miles, Jon is one of the most boring singers I have had to bear with (because Yes are so awesome), in and outside of prog. |
I have NEVER understood how people can love a band while saying they can't stand the vocals. Especially because the vocal harmonies are a very important part of Yes. |
You very well can because you can listen to Howe's chords and melodies, Wakeman's interludes, Bruford's punishing fills and so on and so forth. You can also appreciate how beautifully the vocal harmony was written without necessarily liking the way it was sung. Gentle Giant is another good example and again I don't like the vocals much but the music ... Unless the singer is really, really good AND the construction of the song too emphasises the performance of the singer (i.e. the tone, nuances and not just lots of vocal harmonies) I don't usually pay much attention to vocals in prog. Another example: I don't like Wetton's singing on Red album at all but it is my favourite prog rock album. I just ignore the vocals or concentrate on their compositional function...so simple!
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Unless it's an "A Capella" track, I don't see the problem neither.
I love the composition of every pre Going for the One and Drama album (well maybe Tales not), the instrumental performance of guys like Howe, Bruford, Squire, White, Moraz Wakemsn, Kaye, etc.
But simply can't stand Jon Andersons voice, too acute and IMGHO with no work or technique, I use to compare him with David Surkamp, who sounds like Geddy Lee with helium, but the guy exploits his timbre and with technique adds a vibratto very similar to Edith Piaff.
Jon just throws his voice, and his lyrics are terrible.
I can't stand that.
Iván |
I never got why people hate Jon's lyrics so much, it's nothing really obnoxious or stupid or anything, they're really too abstract and cryptic for me to have an opinion on them, but I like that I don't really know what the hell he's singing about because that adds a mystery to it and allows me to imagine what a Yes song is about by letting the music speak to myself, I get my own visualizations of the music without it being ruined by some typical rock lyrics about generic love and sex topics. Radiohead are the same way.
Personally I think Jon's lyrics were just fine until they started being you know, coherent, like on Tormato. He should have stuck to his abstract style because that way I can't tell if they're really banal or not. I don't think his lyrics are really that pretentious, because having read about his inspiration for the lyrics on CTTE and Tales he really takes that stuff to heart and because I have't read Siddhartha or Autobiography of a Yoga I can't really critique his grasping of the concepts explored in those works, I doubt most people who criticize his lyrics have read them either. I know it's a cliche thing to say but I really think it's a text example of people loving to bash things they simply don't understand.
Also, he indeeed uses vibrato but not too often. Really, isn't vibrato just a cheap trick for singers to sound "emotional" anyway? Jon isn't trying to impress anybody with his singing. I think for his kinda voice it's best to keep it reserved and not to try and sing like most rock singers and be aggressive. Because then he'd probably sound like freaking Bon Scott or something.
I also think it's very unfair to say his vocals have no technique, he doesn't have an opera singers voice but he makes the best of what he has. I think it was David Byrne who said that the better a singer someone is the harder it is to believe what they're saying. 
Edited by boo boo - May 22 2010 at 23:02
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 23:00 |
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I can't speak for Ivan but I guess "no technique" is an obvious hyperbole. He really means, "nothing impressive about his technique" and I would agree with that assessment. And that is absolutely fine but Jon is often hailed as one of the most technically accomplished singers in prog and I don't know where that comes from. The one point of note technically w.r.t Jon is he can get to E5 and that's down to his being a contralto.
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boo boo
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 23:04 |
rogerthat wrote:
I can't speak for Ivan but I guess "no technique" is an obvious hyperbole. He really means, "nothing impressive about his technique" and I would agree with that assessment. And that is absolutely fine but Jon is often hailed as one of the most technically accomplished singers in prog and I don't know where that comes from. The one point of note technically w.r.t Jon is he can get to E5 and that's down to his being a contralto. |
Really? I have never seen that anywhere. He's sorely underrated if anything.
Personally I don't care how technically accomplished he is or isn't, many of my favorite singers are not of the technicallly accomplished variety.
Edited by boo boo - May 22 2010 at 23:04
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himtroy
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 23:07 |
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Hammill absolutely crushed Anderson in my opinion. Anderson's voice is good, but Peter's is absolutely insane. So dynamic and emotional
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 23:08 |
boo boo wrote:
Really? I have never seen that anywhere. He's sorely underrated if anything. |
Underrated??? You gotta be kidding me if you have never seen all the love showered on Jon's singing here or anywhere else in the prog world. Once when I voiced my opinion on Anderson, the fans here wouldn't even accept my opinion for what it was - an opinion! Aw, c'mon, gimme a break!  I know my stuff and I will drop deader sooner than suggest that Jon is more technically accomplished than someone like Steve Walsh, who has a wonderful tone, beautiful vocal production and really belts out his high notes the way they ought to be IF we are talking of technically great singing.
boo boo wrote:
Personally I don't care how technically accomplished he is or isn't, many of my favorite singers are not of the technicallly accomplished variety. |
Yes, but I/we were not talking about you! 
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boo boo
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 23:10 |
Yeah, people like me think he's a great singer (which is subjective as "great singer" doesn't always mean technically impressive singer), but I'm not claming the guy is Freddie Mercury or anything, nor have I ever seen anyone (who should be taken seriously anyway) who has ever said such a thing.
Edited by boo boo - May 22 2010 at 23:12
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 22 2010 at 23:13 |
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I don't think people were comparing him to Mercury because Queen, though they are on PA, are generally thought of, rightly, as a hard/classic rock band. But technically I wouldn't put him above Hammill/Anderson/Gabriel. He has a better tone than them but ...dynamics? Modulation? Where are they in his singing? Those three are excellent in those categories.
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Peter Hammill vs Jon Anderson
