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Babak RP 
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 18 2010
Location: Tehran, Iran
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Points: 8
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 Topic: Is Mike Portnoy ruining Dream Theater?
Posted: May 21 2010 at 04:12 |
Before I start, I should say that I've been a huge Dream Theater fan up to Systematic Chaos. But what now? What has happened to the favourite band of hunderd thousands of people around the world?
Black Cloud & Silver Linings can be described as one of the disappointing moments in DT's career; and in my opinion the credit for this relative failure goes to Mike Portnoy and his attitude and growing control over the band's musical direction. Maybe he's suffering from mid-life crisis and he wants to prove to the world that he can still play and act (and GROWL) like a 25-year old. Whatever the reason is, he seems to be the one in the band who makes all the decisions and has tightened his grip on DT gradually over the last years. The result is the suffocation of DT's creartivity. The result is an album sounding like a poor cover version of their own great material.
Is it really the same band that has recorded master-pieces such as Images & Words? There's no doubt that Mike is a great drummer and musician, but he should stop playing the boss and give us our beloved DT back.
Babak RP, Tehran-Iran
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 04:32 |
black clouds in silver linings was a little too metal oriented i like dream theater metal moments but when they are just that: moments.
having said that the count of tuscany is one of my favourite dream theater pieces it managed too compete with in the presence of enemies and octavarium.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 04:43 |
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I've listened to 'Black clouds...' twice. There is nothing remarkable about the album as a whole. It's pretty formulaic and predictable. 'Count of Tuscany' is pretty good, I guess.
I'm not a DT expert, so I'm not really aware of the grip that Portnoy has on the band, or to what extent he influences their direction. All I know is that I've heard much better stuff from DT, than 'Black Clouds..' and, if I'm honest 'Systematic Chaos' too.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Hox
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 18 2008
Location: Venezia (Italy)
Status: Offline
Points: 60
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 05:29 |
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I think Dream Teather are like Steve Vai: great mastery in playing instrument coupled with few revolutionary ideas. Infact many years ago I discovered them by a colleague, he played them at work. For first I believed they were a cover band because most of the song I heard were by other bands like Yes or Pink Floyd. But also the other tracks gave me a continuous sens of deja vu.
So I don't think Portnoy is ruining DT. In my very humble opinion they simply are paying on long term for what I wrote up here. Blacksword confirms with his very tight and occam-driven definition "formulaic and predictable".
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Hox
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Joined: September 18 2008
Location: Venezia (Italy)
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Points: 60
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 05:33 |
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If they enrolled Mike Patton :-D probably they could be best prog band of new millennium. They are kind of Mother of Inventions without a Zappa at their back.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 905
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 06:42 |
There's not much to ruin. 
Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy and Rudess are all talented. But they need a new singer and someone to guide them, and some actual ambition for crying out loud, for what is considered a progressive band they just imitate all the prog and metal that came before and it all sounds very mechanical, static and routine.
Yeah they know all about the odd time signatures and stuff but even with all the different chord and time changes their music still manages to come off as predictable and boring to me. Nothing seems to suit a purpose, it's just showing off and nothing more, contrary to popular belief that's not what prog is all about, a lot of good prog bands show off their skills but they still have a sense of melody and rhythm and group chemistry, there's a structure behind what they do and there's a desire to convey certain moods and "images" through their sounds. Most importantly these bands "jam" when they have an idea to jam with. With DT none of these things really matter, they just have some obligation to do the same thing with every song.
They're so formulaic and every album is the same thing, I wouldn't mind if it wasn't under the pretense of being "progressive" music. They're like a novelty band that only wants to satisfy the kinda people who think Nirvana destroyed good music or some stupid crap like that, they have the talent to explore new territory that nobody else could because they lack the chops but they choose not to.
Edited by boo boo - May 21 2010 at 15:20
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 06:56 |
DT are a very odd case for me. They're great players and they compose good music but something's just... missing. I think it's soul. I think they go into things *trying* too much instead of naturally feeling what they're doing.
Still, Octavarium is one of the great prog songs of the decade just gone.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 07:04 |
 boo boo wrote:
There's not much to ruin.
Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy and Rudess are all talented. But they need a new singer and someone to guide them, and some actual ambition for crying out loud, for what is considered a progressive band they just imitate all the prog and metal that come before and it all sounds very mechanical, static and routine.
Yeah they know all about the odd time signatures and stuff but even with all the different chord and time changes their music still manages to come off as predictable and boring to me. Nothing seems to suit a purpose, it's just showing off and nothing more, contrary to popular belief that's not what prog is all about, a lot of good prog bands show off their skills but they still have a sense of melody and rhythm and group chemistry, there's a structure behind what they do and there's a desire to convey certain moods and "images" through their sounds. Most importantly these bands "jam" when they have an idea to jam with. With DT none of these things really matter, they just have some obligation to do the same thing with every song.
They're so formulaic and every album is the same thing, I wouldn't mind if it wasn't under the pretense of being "progressive" music. They're like a novelty band that only wants to satisfy the kinda people who think Nirvana destroyed good music or some stupid crap like that, they have the talent to explore new territory that nobody else could because they lack the chops but they choose not to. |
This is what put me off DT for along time. Despite their obvious technical prowess, it seemed that song writing had taken a back seat, to simply showing off. But, having explored some of their earlier stuff and having seen them live, I've learned to appreciate them for what they are. They are not particularly progressive or innovative, but they entertain and know how to create excitement. I think they write music in a way that they know will come to life in a live context. I'd happily part with money to go and see them any day of the week, although I'd probably think twice about buying any more of their albums. I've heard a bit from each era, and that's probably sufficient.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 09:15 |
Oh... again complaining about DT...
I know I'm in the minority here but I consider this album a lot better than Systematic Chaos. I know people find it "formulaic" if that can apply to an album of only six songs... but I think people expect too much of them.. they have succeed and is almost impossible to top their own limits... having I&W, Awake and Metropolis out there, is very tough to top it, but this album is good, is dark, it has everything....
Well, I don't agree with blacksword now, the fact that you feel like they are just showing off is missing the point. They don't need to do that... they are already proved everything... I don't see any showing off in songs like Wither or The Best of Times... even in The Count of Tuscany... I feel that people complain too much about DT... these thread happens to appear every two or three months with a different title... just enjoy the music guys... or well, dont...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
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Points: 14693
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 10:01 |
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I've always been a fan of a certain period of Dream Theater - up to and including (just) 6 Degrees Of Inner Turbulence; to my mind, the triple live 'Scenes From New York' captured them at their best (even Labrie sounded pretty good), but the material I've heard from them in the last 5/6 years does, I agree, sound pretty much DT-by-numbers.
Whether or not this is down to Portnoy's influence/leadership is a moot point, but to my mind, nowadays they just sound like a clever heavy metal band to me.
+++builds fireproof wall around PC+++
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 12:28 |
Jim Garten wrote:
I've always been a fan of a certain period of Dream Theater - up to and including (just) 6 Degrees Of Inner Turbulence; to my mind, the triple live 'Scenes From New York' captured them at their best (even Labrie sounded pretty good), but the material I've heard from them in the last 5/6 years does, I agree, sound pretty much DT-by-numbers.
Whether or not this is down to Portnoy's influence/leadership is a moot point, but to my mind, nowadays they just sound like a clever heavy metal band to me.
+++builds fireproof wall around PC+++ |
I agree almost completely, except that I don't even bother much with the post-Awake output and I am guessing from that that I like Images...and Awake a lot more than you. "Clever heavy metal band" is very aptly put. They had tremendous potential at the time of Awake but have been middling by and large since then.
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Nightshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 210
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 12:58 |
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Finally, some common sense on these boards.
How about we just take DT off the archives for not being PROGRESSIVE? You know, this is supposed to be a PROGRESSIVE rock website, and thus there has to be some PROGRESSION within the music, because PROGRESS is what this genre was supposed to be about in the first place until the pretentious fanboys decided what "progressive rock" is.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:08 |
And here I thought this thread was started to complain that Mike Portnoy's touring with Avenged Sevenfold for the remainder of 2010 was ruining Dream Theater. But lo and behold it is just another excuse for the haters to bash on Dream Theater.
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Nightshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 210
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:15 |
rushfan4 wrote:
And here I thought this thread was started to complain that Mike Portnoy's touring with Avenged Sevenfold for the remainder of 2010 was ruining Dream Theater. But lo and behold it is just another excuse for the haters to bash on Dream Theater. |
Let's just make it perfectly clear: There's no reason to really defend them anymore, and you and everyone else might as well just let people who hate Dream Theater hate on them like they rightfully deserve to be hated upon for being a bunch of sell outs.
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The Monodrone
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Indiana, USA
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Points: 4489
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:15 |
Dream Theater ruined Dream Theater. 
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:19 |
Seems as though Dream Theater have been sellouts since Images and Words since that was when they had their one and only hit.
Is it true that TROLLS only come out during the moonshine at night?
Edited by rushfan4 - May 21 2010 at 13:20
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Nightshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 210
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:23 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Seems as though Dream Theater have been sellouts since Images and Words since that was when they had their one and only hit.
Is it true that TROLLS only come out during the moonshine at night?
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Wrong definition of "sellout". Try again there buddy.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:26 |
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Oh you meant the standing room only crowds at their live performances.
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Nightshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 210
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:26 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Oh you meant the standing room only crowds at their live performances. |
Try again.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:28 |
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Please Mr. Genius why don't you use your wisdom beyond your youthful years to explain to an addleminded old man what you mean.
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Is Mike Portnoy ruining Dream Theater?
