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Topic ClosedDVD or Blu Ray?

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Poll Question: Choose your preference
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Finnforest View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 16:40
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Well, actually it's not surprising that DVD is winning here ... after all this is a prog forum, and prog fans are usually nostalgic. "The grass was greener" ... applied to every technology. LOL


That or people see little point in buying new hardware to play movies they've been forced to re-purchase.



Exactly.  I'm not anti-BluRay, I just don't care enough to run out and buy the newest thing.  DVDs and CDs look and sound good enough IMO.  Are they *as* good?  No.  Do I care?  No


Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



Unless we're talking about erotic films, then I suppose I see the BluRay caseLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 16:55
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Well, actually it's not surprising that DVD is winning here ... after all this is a prog forum, and prog fans are usually nostalgic. "The grass was greener" ... applied to every technology. LOL


That or people see little point in buying new hardware to play movies they've been forced to re-purchase.



Exactly.  I'm not anti-BluRay, I just don't care enough to run out and buy the newest thing.  DVDs and CDs look and sound good enough IMO.  Are they *as* good?  No.  Do I care?  No


Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



Unless we're talking about erotic films, then I suppose I see the BluRay caseLOL

For every music fan who wants to listen to 20 minute songs about purple clouds there is another one with a passion for the best possible picture in their movies... I guess the existence of both makes the same sense...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 17:00
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Well, actually it's not surprising that DVD is winning here ... after all this is a prog forum, and prog fans are usually nostalgic. "The grass was greener" ... applied to every technology. LOL


That or people see little point in buying new hardware to play movies they've been forced to re-purchase.



Exactly.  I'm not anti-BluRay, I just don't care enough to run out and buy the newest thing.  DVDs and CDs look and sound good enough IMO.  Are they *as* good?  No.  Do I care?  No


Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



Unless we're talking about erotic films, then I suppose I see the BluRay caseLOL

For every music fan who wants to listen to 20 minute songs about purple clouds there is another one with a passion for the best possible picture in their movies... I guess the existence of both makes the same sense...




And for every one of those there's a few million people who could care less about blowing cash on something with more pixels.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 17:09
Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Well, actually it's not surprising that DVD is winning here ... after all this is a prog forum, and prog fans are usually nostalgic. "The grass was greener" ... applied to every technology. LOL


That or people see little point in buying new hardware to play movies they've been forced to re-purchase.



Exactly.  I'm not anti-BluRay, I just don't care enough to run out and buy the newest thing.  DVDs and CDs look and sound good enough IMO.  Are they *as* good?  No.  Do I care?  No


Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



Unless we're talking about erotic films, then I suppose I see the BluRay caseLOL

For every music fan who wants to listen to 20 minute songs about purple clouds there is another one with a passion for the best possible picture in their movies... I guess the existence of both makes the same sense...




And for every one of those there's a few million people who could care less about blowing cash on something with more pixels.

You're probably still with a betamax since you are stuck in 1989 so of course this doesn't make sense to you... Wink




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 21:48
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ have you seen the movie in HD?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeacjOkLjZ0

The techniques they used for shooting the movie are nothing short of amazing ... not just the resolution but also super slow motion filming and some pretty innovative ideas.

BTW: This clip is only 720p and low bitrate, but early on in the shot with the flying birds you get an idea of how amazing this looks in HD.
Yeah, I know what Planet Earth looks like, I have the series on DVD. I love it, and I'm sure it would look fantastic in HD...but not fantastic enough for me to drop $1500 dollars.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 21:54
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Well, actually it's not surprising that DVD is winning here ... after all this is a prog forum, and prog fans are usually nostalgic. "The grass was greener" ... applied to every technology. LOL


That or people see little point in buying new hardware to play movies they've been forced to re-purchase.



Exactly.  I'm not anti-BluRay, I just don't care enough to run out and buy the newest thing.  DVDs and CDs look and sound good enough IMO.  Are they *as* good?  No.  Do I care?  No


Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



Unless we're talking about erotic films, then I suppose I see the BluRay caseLOL

For every music fan who wants to listen to 20 minute songs about purple clouds there is another one with a passion for the best possible picture in their movies... I guess the existence of both makes the same sense...




And for every one of those there's a few million people who could care less about blowing cash on something with more pixels.

You're probably still with a betamax since you are stuck in 1989 so of course this doesn't make sense to you... Wink




Wasting money never makes sense.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 23:44
Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Well, actually it's not surprising that DVD is winning here ... after all this is a prog forum, and prog fans are usually nostalgic. "The grass was greener" ... applied to every technology. LOL


That or people see little point in buying new hardware to play movies they've been forced to re-purchase.



Exactly.  I'm not anti-BluRay, I just don't care enough to run out and buy the newest thing.  DVDs and CDs look and sound good enough IMO.  Are they *as* good?  No.  Do I care?  No


Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



Unless we're talking about erotic films, then I suppose I see the BluRay caseLOL

For every music fan who wants to listen to 20 minute songs about purple clouds there is another one with a passion for the best possible picture in their movies... I guess the existence of both makes the same sense...




And for every one of those there's a few million people who could care less about blowing cash on something with more pixels.

You're probably still with a betamax since you are stuck in 1989 so of course this doesn't make sense to you... Wink




Wasting money never makes sense.
Its weird how we have to have the best and yet how much better than DVD do we want. My parenbts grew up on no TV, I grew up on black and white and was content. Now we have a generation of people who have to have hi definition LCD screens 55 inch with surround sound and Blu ray perfection. Makes you sick. I have to go now, and turn my 42 inch LCD on as the sports are starting in a mo LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 02:22
Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by rpe9p rpe9p wrote:

Maybe he meant do you buy DVD or Blu Ray, or do you think the slight increase in quality is worth it


Slight increase? There's almost 3 time the pixels!



Maybe I just prefer it because I'm the visual equivalent to an audiophile. In a few years you'll all have blu ray players anyways, maybe you'll just be watching your crappy old DVDs on them TongueWink

I'm not sure here, but is every Blu Ray (stupid name by the way, it should have been named Blue if you ask me) in this resolution, or are some in lower ?

Second thing - I can convert 100x100 video to 1900x1000 px big monster too, but result quality will be terrible. What I'm trying to say that with many DVD's, you have quality as good as possible (and you know how let's say pre 70's films can be terrible in quality), but it is still bad.

I remember having one old cartoon on dvd - it was almost flashing with brightness, like in waves of dark and bright picture quality. It was corny, but it was the best it could be.


But many people bought it because they saw it was on DVD and expected quality. Yeah, paper cover for DVD was nicely done, but what was inside was good old cartoon, not good in quality of picture.

Now let's apply this on Blu Ray



So many things wrong with this.

A good blu ray transfer sees someone going back to the 35 or 16mm master reels and reproducing it from there. 35mm film is far superior to HD 1080x1920, it just can't be shown on a digital medium uncompressed. even 16mm is "bigger" than HD. The Hurt Locker was shot on 16mm for god's sake and it looks fantastic on blu ray! You can't say that "movies from the 70s" look crappy because last time I checked Bladerunner (yes, 80s, I know) and Star Wars or The Shining or Full Metal Jacket look a f**kload better in HD. The only difference between DVD and HD when it comes to film is how much you're compressing it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 04:07
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



A nice example of how people make up reasons to confirm their bias or rationalize their behavior. Of course blu-ray is much better than DVD, and the difference compared to DVD is striking. And of course that neither means that you need to upgrade your system nor that you can't enjoy DVD anymore. But if you start pretending that it's not really that much better, or that the improvements in picture quality are basically just a hype, know that you're leaving the realm of reality.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 06:25
Mike, two issues here.  Everyone agrees with you that BR is clearer.  Whether its worth the hassle and money to upgrade is more personal, and there is nothing wrong with people who are content with what they have.  There's lots of cars out there better than my Civic, doesn't mean I'm "leaving reality" if I don't feel driven to upgrade to one of them.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:08
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



Absolutely right Jim.

How clear can a picture beWacko

Who wants to see each bead of sweat on Chris Squire's face anyway?  Dead



A nice example of how people make up reasons to confirm their bias or rationalize their behavior. Of course blu-ray is much better than DVD, and the difference compared to DVD is striking. And of course that neither means that you need to upgrade your system nor that you can't enjoy DVD anymore. But if you start pretending that it's not really that much better, or that the improvements in picture quality are basically just a hype, know that you're leaving the realm of reality.Wink


I never once implied that Blu-Ray was not technologically superior to DVD.  What I did imply was that DVD is clear enough, and I refuse to involve myself in the commercial pissing match that wants me to open my wallet in exchange for something I almost already have.  In sum, a clearer picture- no matter how much clearer- is not good enough for me to spend the money.

Therefore I am delusional?  That line is really getting old.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:08
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by rpe9p rpe9p wrote:

Maybe he meant do you buy DVD or Blu Ray, or do you think the slight increase in quality is worth it


Slight increase? There's almost 3 time the pixels!



Maybe I just prefer it because I'm the visual equivalent to an audiophile. In a few years you'll all have blu ray players anyways, maybe you'll just be watching your crappy old DVDs on them TongueWink

I'm not sure here, but is every Blu Ray (stupid name by the way, it should have been named Blue if you ask me) in this resolution, or are some in lower ?

Second thing - I can convert 100x100 video to 1900x1000 px big monster too, but result quality will be terrible. What I'm trying to say that with many DVD's, you have quality as good as possible (and you know how let's say pre 70's films can be terrible in quality), but it is still bad.

I remember having one old cartoon on dvd - it was almost flashing with brightness, like in waves of dark and bright picture quality. It was corny, but it was the best it could be.


But many people bought it because they saw it was on DVD and expected quality. Yeah, paper cover for DVD was nicely done, but what was inside was good old cartoon, not good in quality of picture.

Now let's apply this on Blu Ray



So many things wrong with this.

A good blu ray transfer sees someone going back to the 35 or 16mm master reels and reproducing it from there. 35mm film is far superior to HD 1080x1920, it just can't be shown on a digital medium uncompressed. even 16mm is "bigger" than HD. The Hurt Locker was shot on 16mm for god's sake and it looks fantastic on blu ray! You can't say that "movies from the 70s" look crappy because last time I checked Bladerunner (yes, 80s, I know) and Star Wars or The Shining or Full Metal Jacket look a f**kload better in HD. The only difference between DVD and HD when it comes to film is how much you're compressing it.

God, I wanted just to explain how this works, not to start World Post War III.

I don't understand much how "classic" films works, but when I buy a DVD and want to convert it to lower quality (and size), I rip it with certain programs. I can choose bitrate of both video and audio and the result file, be it .avi or .mkv or .mp4, whatever, looks good or bad. It depends on quality selected.

This is theory and I was talking about this. I didn't experience VHS much, when I was watching VHS I was too young and was just consuming films / movies / cartoons, not thinking about them. But I know that some of them (we still have VHS from late 80's) are in crappy quality.


In my thinking, it depends on few factors. Original quality, when it was shot, edited, cut, how it was stored.

Please, try not to concentrate on thing in my post that irritates you the most and try to see reasoning in it. Main purpose why I have posted it. I'm not saying that 70's films looks crappy and nowadays films looks perfect. I am not. All I am saying is that today, technique used is better, therefore, resulting quality MAY be better. Or may not, it depends on director.

Few questions:


1)Let's move backwards then. Films from 1920's looks worse than films 00's. Why ? Because of what I've just said - they didn't have technology to make picture quality better. Do I take these films as bad ? Nope.
So the question is - do they look worse ?

2)Take for example videos you could record on crappy mobile phones let's say 5 years ago. 176x133 px resulting video, something like that, right ? So I can use some program and transform it to 1900x1000. It will be stretched, it will be terrible to look at, but I can do that, right ? See what I'm trying to tell ?

3)I won't repeat it. This thing about this old cartoon, this happened. DVD we bought for my little sister was in terrible quality, but it's probably because it never was in good quality. It was 720x480, but the quality itself was terrible.

On archive.org I downloaded some black'n'white movies from 1910's, 1920's. Their resolution (measured in pixels) wasn't bad. But quality of picture was.

So, the question is, you can get poor quality picture with 1900x1000 pixels movie.

Second question - Are pixels guarantee of quality or are they not ? 


By the way, I know about Blade Runner (it was close to my 70's, nevermind it), I like the book, I like original book "Does Androids...", I like Philip K. Dick's work at all (I've read most of them), I saw few different endings of this movie and was stunned in each case, be it book or movie.

Also consider remastering

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:09
When they will no new DVD available in stores, you'll see how much people will change their preferences to Blu Ray. It could take a lot of years, but it will be a new reality, like it or not. They're will be a new kind of Blu Ray, can't stop the technology...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:16
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

When they will no new DVD available in stores, you'll see how much people will change their preferences to Blu Ray. It could take a lot of years, but it will be a new reality, like it or not. They're will be a new kind of Blu Ray, can't stop the technology...


I don't know-
throughout the years several superior technologies have been marketed to the public and have failed to catch on sufficiently enough to become the new standard media.

In fact, I only know one household that has upgraded to Blu-Ray.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:27
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

When they will no new DVD available in stores, you'll see how much people will change their preferences to Blu Ray. It could take a lot of years, but it will be a new reality, like it or not. They're will be a new kind of Blu Ray, can't stop the technology...


I don't know-
throughout the years several superior technologies have been marketed to the public and have failed to catch on sufficiently enough to become the new standard media.

In fact, I only know one household that has upgraded to Blu-Ray.


That's an interesting point. Several new technologies did become the "standard" but all those I can think of (the cassette, the CD, digital radio/video/audio/photo etc.) came with the advantage of a more efficient production and a lower (or at least not higher) price for the end consumer. Not the case with Blu-Ray...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:47
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:



That's an interesting point. Several new technologies did become the "standard" but all those I can think of (the cassette, the CD, digital radio/video/audio/photo etc.) came with the advantage of a more efficient production and a lower (or at least not higher) price for the end consumer. Not the case with Blu-Ray...


The price of the Blu Ray will go down when people are going to buy more of it and  when the manufacturer going to do more of them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:57
^ I'm not so optimistic - the most common strategy is to let the customer get used to the higher price, in time...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 07:58
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

When they will no new DVD available in stores, you'll see how much people will change their preferences to Blu Ray. It could take a lot of years, but it will be a new reality, like it or not. They're will be a new kind of Blu Ray, can't stop the technology...




I disagree.

Stores changed their offer, gradually, from VHS tapes to DVDs. From Vinyl albums and cassettes to CDs.
But the new technology offered back then was radical, different, new. VHS tapes were slow, heavy, bulky, analog, tapes were prone to breakage. DVD offered digital reliability.

Blue-ray is nearly that revolutionary. It's digital media on steroids. Is it worth it? Surely, if you appreciate high-end performance. But in the war of formats, BluRay won over HD-DVD...by a hairline. I'm afraid it will be obsolete in a decade or so, going in history like one of those 'in-between' formats.

Everyone of my age (or older) remember diskettes (floppy disks of 3.5 inch size). They were ubiquitous. But what about the 'new, bigger, better, faster, more reliable'  formats that came later and falled through the cracks of history? Mini disc, zip drive, jazz drive, digital cassette, where are they now?!? UMD, for God's sake! (And they were better, at least some of them, actually.)

Technically, there's no difference in storing the file that contains HD movies on BluRay or on a bunch of (thousands) floppy drives, providing you have a retrofit equipment for the practical use. (You can even store digital media on analog tape, but that's beside the point.) Where's the catch? In blue laser light? Is it really worth it?

In our (near) future, USB stick is the physical format that will prevail (or should). The next step will be, most likely, the complete absence of physical media - on-demand data online. Further on, we will reach quantum computers, and/or non-binary digital devices.

I'm not saying BluRay disk is no good, or not technically better than DVD, that's stupid. A new Ferrari is certainly better car than my old little Ford, no doubt about it: it's faster, stronger, better in overtaking, more stable on a winding road. But, price and availability aside, do I need it? No. I need a car with a reasonably high level of reliability that will transport me from A to B, while I'm able to appreciate the countryside. I'm not interested in driving 300 km/h.

Surely, if driving 300 km/h is your thing, go for Ferrari. If watching high-definition movies with stereo surround is your thing, go for it.

But I tell you one thing: my favourite music genre is progressive rock. I can tell you my favourite actors, directors and movie genres. I experienced them all through various media. Would be my opinion different if watched on different, better media? I don't think so.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 09:02
I don't think that Blu Ray is the ultimate media, sure they will be smaller media, another media soon that will allow you to have a good picture resolution and don't forget to have more information. Who doesn't want to have more information in less space and better quality sound and picture. You can still appreciate your favorite artist for the real content of the music by using the new technology. One doesn't exclude the other.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 09:26
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

When they will no new DVD available in stores, you'll see how much people will change their preferences to Blu Ray. It could take a lot of years, but it will be a new reality, like it or not. They're will be a new kind of Blu Ray, can't stop the technology...




I disagree.

Stores changed their offer, gradually, from VHS tapes to DVDs. From Vinyl albums and cassettes to CDs.
But the new technology offered back then was radical, different, new. VHS tapes were slow, heavy, bulky, analog, tapes were prone to breakage. DVD offered digital reliability.

Blue-ray is nearly that revolutionary. It's digital media on steroids. Is it worth it? Surely, if you appreciate high-end performance. But in the war of formats, BluRay won over HD-DVD...by a hairline. I'm afraid it will be obsolete in a decade or so, going in history like one of those 'in-between' formats.

Everyone of my age (or older) remember diskettes (floppy disks of 3.5 inch size). They were ubiquitous. But what about the 'new, bigger, better, faster, more reliable'  formats that came later and falled through the cracks of history? Mini disc, zip drive, jazz drive, digital cassette, where are they now?!? UMD, for God's sake! (And they were better, at least some of them, actually.)

Technically, there's no difference in storing the file that contains HD movies on BluRay or on a bunch of (thousands) floppy drives, providing you have a retrofit equipment for the practical use. (You can even store digital media on analog tape, but that's beside the point.) Where's the catch? In blue laser light? Is it really worth it?

In our (near) future, USB stick is the physical format that will prevail (or should). The next step will be, most likely, the complete absence of physical media - on-demand data online. Further on, we will reach quantum computers, and/or non-binary digital devices.

I'm not saying BluRay disk is no good, or not technically better than DVD, that's stupid. A new Ferrari is certainly better car than my old little Ford, no doubt about it: it's faster, stronger, better in overtaking, more stable on a winding road. But, price and availability aside, do I need it? No. I need a car with a reasonably high level of reliability that will transport me from A to B, while I'm able to appreciate the countryside. I'm not interested in driving 300 km/h.

Surely, if driving 300 km/h is your thing, go for Ferrari. If watching high-definition movies with stereo surround is your thing, go for it.

But I tell you one thing: my favourite music genre is progressive rock. I can tell you my favourite actors, directors and movie genres. I experienced them all through various media. Would be my opinion different if watched on different, better media? I don't think so.




I like the point about the Ferrarri - they have been around for years and yet who owns one beside the filthy rich? Blu Ray will go down in price but why do we need it at all when DVD is so damn good.
i dont get why technology has to consume our lives.
i dont get when good enough is never good enough.
i dont get when we always need to have better when what we have does not need to be bettered.
Sure VHS had to go - too frail, deteriorating and prone to breakage, but DVDs are resilient enough. I hate how you walk into shops now and they push the DVDs to the back and in front are all the Blu rays, the catalogues are all Blu ray with only a few DVDs at the back - it is craSS marketing forcing us to make decisions that we really do not need to make, yet we think we need it. i guarantee you that many will be persuaded, no manipulated, into switching to Blu ray simply because the marketing tells us we need it.
WE DO NOT NEED A NEW SYSTEM!
We are only lining the pockets of the rich companies making them more richer, buying thins we would never even consider if not advertised in such a manipulative way. Advertising is all about tellin us we need something we do not have. If the advertisers succeed in persuading us we must have a product, they are doing their job. That is their function. That is their motto. Tell the customer they must have a product even though they do not need it.
Rant over! 
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