Why does prog attrack more males, not females?

Ethos wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Ethos wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Ethos wrote: BaldFriede wrote: I grew up with prog because my brother, who is ten years older than I am, listened to all that strange stuff in the 70s, and I was attracted to those strange noises coming out of his room, so I wound up being around when he and his friends gathered around by candlelight under billows of thick sweet smoke, with me, the little sister of my brother, being a kind of mascot. So sorry, I am an exception to the rule. Don't say sorry.  That is so cool!  You are independent.  The same as me.  You liked what you heard, and that was enough, no different than me.  We proggers are in the minority for sure. I am surrounded by people, especially  at work,  who do not appreciate what I listen to, at all.  That's why I'm here. Do any of your female friends like prog also? Who is your favorite group? Well, my wife does (I am a lesbian), and she grew up with it too. She is American by birth, and her parents were hippies. She was not even a year old when she attended Woodstock. Favorite group? I don't have "the" favourite band, but VdGG, Gong, Magma, Can, Embryo, Amon Düül 2, Guru Guru, King Crimson or Hawkwind are sme of my favourite artists. I generally love Krautrock and Space Rock; that's where the strangest sounds came from when I was a kid. Good music taste.  I lean more towards the symphonic side rather than space rock. Back to the question at hand: What is it about prog in relation to gender that makes you an exception to the rule (from a woman's perspective)?  In other words, what connected with you that doesn't connect with many other women?  There has got to be more to it than "my brother listened to it."

My brother was my hero when I was a kid; he could answer any question I had, and I had a lot. Sometimes the explanations were over my head, but that only made me more eager to learn. I was a child prodigy in math (which in itself is considered to be unusual in a woman). After I had bought him two albums of bands he had never heard about (as Christmas and birthday presents; "Godbluff" by VdGG and "Live Etc." by Gong; I liked the Escher geometry of the VdGG logo and the photos on the inside sleeves of "Live etc.") but which he liked immediately he called me "mein kleiner Spürhund" ("my little track hound").
The music put me into a dreamlike state, which perhaps was further enhanced by the sweet smoke which was in the air, though I was never passed the joint myself. I imagined all kinds of strange things going on when listening to the music (for example I saw a coasstline, on which man on a horse fled from Death swinging a scythe on a skeletal steed when listening to "Rubycon" by Tangerine Dream). I vividly remember the first sound which lured me into my brother's room; it was the sound of Steve Hackett's guitar during the quiet part of "The Knife" from the "Live" album of Genesis. I had never heard anything like it before. The sound was so eery and at the same time so beautiful.

himtroy wrote: I think it's because.....no I shouldn't say that...oh hell I'll say it.  I think it's because in 98% of cases it seems women like really bad music and want nothing more than something they can sing and dance around to.  Seeing as it's hard to dance in 7/8....

It is not hard to dance in 7/8 at all, not even to much more complicated rhythms. Have you ever been to a concert of Embryo? They play extremely complex rhythms (they are trained in the tala tarangini,the Indian art of drumming with extremely complicated rhythm patterns), and people dance like mad on their concerts.


Edited by BaldFriede - April 23 2010 at 06:49

thellama73 wrote: Everyone knows that women have terrible taste in music. Diana Krall? Avril Lavigne? Tori Amos? Lily Allen? The list goes on and on. Honestly, you could say the same thing about almost any genre of music that is considered good. I don't have data on thisother than my own experience, but I would bet that few women listen to Jazz or Classical music compared to men. On the other hand, I bet fewer women listen to Rap as well, so they score a point there. Now to any women who are offended, don't be. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Musical taste is just not one of your strengths.

There are a lot of things that attract a great deal more males than females: Video games, action movies, NASCAR, finance, and crime.

Then certain things attract a great deal more females than males: Soap operas, fashion, scrapbooking, teaching, and Justin Bieber.

One could say that with all the things in this world, there are bound to be categories that involve many more men than women or vice versa.

However, I firmly believe men and woman are fundamentally different on a psychological level, and that this is an important aspect of God's design on human relationships.  There are anomalies, of course, but I think this is how it is in general.

You know I really admire Bald Friede's patience with you guys in her attempt to answer these naive questions, and I think some of you have been sincere in your queries, but I think this tendency to want to 'figure out' women as if they are specimens under a microscope is, to me anyway, kind of embarrassing and really borderline insulting to women in general.

We've had about a million threads like this already and I usually shut them down, but I thought I would give Freide a chance to talk on this one.

TheGazzardian wrote: HTCF wrote: TheGazzardian wrote: I think it has a lot to do with relating to things and the fact that women are generally more emotional/romantic then men.  This, to me, would suggest that women are more likely to enjoy the music of, say, Van der Graaf Generator, than men are.  That is evidently not the case Even if that's true (I think that the rest of my post kind of pointed in the opposite direction ), it still relies on somebody getting exposed to Van Der Graaf Generator before they can like it. So let's say I'm a 16 year old girl in my impressionable age, still feeling more influenced by what's on the radio, love songs, etc. What is going to make me aware of Van Der Graaf Generator in the first place? You have to keep in mind that, other than the radio singles, a lot of prog is only heard by those who seek it out.  Now let's take that supposition a step forward and say that said 16 year old girl interrupts her Bryan Adams or Spice Girls or whatever the young'ns () are listening to today and listens to Van Der Graaf Generator. What are they going to think of those long songs, dark lyrics in Peter Hammill's unique voice? What will they think of the manic drumming and the dual saxophone attack? It will be beyond their scope of expectation and they likely won't know what to make of it. Most people these days judge music on the first listen, and VDGG requires more than just one listen to properly penetrate. So without an immediately obvious reason to love the music, and a lot of confusing new aspects, what will this young girl think? For sure, she might love it. But I think that in most cases, it will be too far beyond her current scope of knowledge for her to appreciate, unless someone is showing it to her, adding their own enthusiasm to build up hers, etc...but I don't think it's likely she's going to discover & love it herself.

Let me see … There was Mette, whom I met while I studied in Bergen. She must have been 19 or 20. I played Pawn Hearts for her, and she fell in love immediately (with the music, not with me). She was also a big fan of Gentle Giant.

Then there was Adriana from Spain. Her favourite record was Godbluff, and I remember she asked me to put on The Undercover Man at a party. The perfect party music if you ask me.

And then you have my sister. In her latest novel, Smokers don’t Play Elastics, she and her friend Teddy are drinking coffee and playing Monopoly (they are 12 years old and don’t want to be children any more):

I put on a record by Van der Graaf Generator. Van der Graaf Generator were a rather weird band that my brother used to listen to.
   I was through with ABBA now. Somehow prog rock was a better companion to coffee.
   – F*cking cool music, Teddy said.
   – I know, said I.

(my translation)

Later on they listen to The Who, Bowie, The Incredible String Band, Pink Floyd and early Genesis. 12 years old. My sister has always been a little different (in a good sense).

My point is that I don’t think this has anything to do with biology. I’ve seen so many exceptions to the rule that I don’t consider it a rule at all.

thellama73 wrote: Epignosis wrote: However, I firmly believe men and woman are fundamentally different on a psychological level, and that this is an important aspect of God's design on human relationships.  There are anomalies, of course, but I think this is how it is in general. I quite agree with you. It is in vogue to think of humans as blank slates that have personality imposed on them by their environment. Everything in my experience contradicts this view. I don't know why the notion that men and women are fundamentally different is so offensive to some people. No one is saying one is better than the other, just different.

Slartibartfast wrote: Because it's a guy thing?  You know, you can make generalizations about people in general, but they remain generalizations in the end.

People in my demographic never generalize.

TheGazzardian wrote: thellama73 wrote: Epignosis wrote: However, I firmly believe men and woman are fundamentally different on a psychological level, and that this is an important aspect of God's design on human relationships.  There are anomalies, of course, but I think this is how it is in general. I quite agree with you. It is in vogue to think of humans as blank slates that have personality imposed on them by their environment. Everything in my experience contradicts this view. I don't know why the notion that men and women are fundamentally different is so offensive to some people. No one is saying one is better than the other, just different. I think of all the analytical thinking, personal experiences, and "information from the source " we've got in this thread, nothing has made as much sense as what Epignosis and thellama73 are saying.

Prog is aimed at men; that's why; look at Brain Salad Surgery, for instance.

Look- classic rock era- most music by men. Prog comes from classic rock. Prog most by men - prog music manish- men like prog women don't

flawless logic?