Tired of 40 years of ELP Bashing - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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chopper

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Joined: July 13 2005
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Posted: April 21 2010 at 10:32

Blacksword wrote:

M27Barney wrote:

You spoilt it by making the fookin horrible smiths an exception , I would rather shag Anne Widdecombe than listen to five minutes of the Smiths...the epitome of a band that REALLY were "The emperors clothes".....

Who wouldn't? Ever since she had those hi-lights put in, she looks 50 years younger. She now only looks 45. I believe it's sometimes referred to as 'old gold'

That's a very worrying statement there, Andy. I'm not going drinking with you again.

Going back to the topic, normally when I see ELP dismissed as "pretentious" it's for one of 2 reasons - either Greg Lake's carpet or the juggernauts they're toured with that had their initials on the top. Check out Stuart Maconie's "Cider with Roadies" which quotes the carpet as being "the size of Lincolnshire" (and he was a fan). It's worth reading for the story of the guy who got a girl back to his place and said "shall I put some music on", so he stuck on Karn Evil 9 and the girl ran away!

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: April 21 2010 at 18:22

People can take pot shots at ELP all they want, won't alter my opinion. They were in the first tier of prog artists in the '70's.

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

FusionKing View Drop Down

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Posted: April 21 2010 at 18:54

I don't see anything wrong with ELP at all. I don't get it. Personally, most people who I know have heard ELP like them.

"Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself" - Sartre

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: April 22 2010 at 08:43

Keep it up. They can take it. And don't be surprised if Keith throws daggers at your organ. LOL

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

progpositivity View Drop Down

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Joined: December 15 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 262

Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:25

ELP? Bombastic? I think so. But "bombastic" need *not* be synonymous with "bad"...

I personally find most of Beethoven's symphonies bombastic on some level. In his *day*, he was always pushing the envelope to make the orchestra *bigger* and *LOUDER*. He was infamous for *destroying* expensive pianos with his heavy-handed playing style. Pianos were made much stronger as a result of the popular response to Beethoven's piano banging.

I must admit that Beethoven wanted to play powerfully moving music. He wasn't just torturing pianos to make a *showy* spectacle out the whole ordeal. I mean - its not like he was stabbing knives into organs or anything like that!

Of course, he also had soft sections too. No doubt some suspected they were little more than a ruse... a method of making sure you appreciated the *power* of the LOUD sections!

On the 'pretentious' front, I wish ELP had more clearly cited the composer whenever they lifted classical melodies and/or themes. Fanfare for the Common Man was obvious and was handled very well IMO. But some of the others were a little ambiguous, were they not? The Barbarian? As someone uneducated in classical music, I thought Emerson came up with that musical idea for a while there.

Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7!
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Garion81

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Posted: April 22 2010 at 18:15

richardh wrote:

TODDLER wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote:

HTCF wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote:

For me, Love Beach was their big stumble. I liked the Works, particularly Pirates and the Emerson classical pieces. The earlier albums are really good. Their earlier albums had some humorous moments, which some believe doesn't belong in prog, but to hell with them. Rawks

EXACTLY

Pirates is boss

They'll soon have pennies on their eyes. Tongue

If you don't like what I like, you are evil and must be destroyed. LOL

I remember long ago enjoying a filmed concert of the band with an orchestra. The performance of 'Pirates" in particular was having an effect on me. Works volume one felt and was in reality solo approach efforts. Works volume two has this rumour to it....that various tracks were actually written during the Trilogy sessions.....although I have never seen such info printed but, throughout decades ELP fans I met had an idea derived from something or the other had them convinced of this fact.

Much of Works Volume 2 was just 'leftovers' from B-sides,solo hits and rejected tracks from other albums. There was no secret about this. Even the supposedly new song 'Tiger In A Spotlight' was a reworking of a peice of music that ELP performed live around about 1971 (name escapes me).Works Vol 2 was as much a contractural obligation album as Love Beach.

Love Beach was all orginial material. So no it wasn't the same in my opinion. They actually did some work on Love Beach. In the Hot Seat contained almost all matrial rejected for Black Moon (Gee Thanks ELP) I would put Works II and In the Hot Seat in the obligation crapper bin.

"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"

shockedjazz View Drop Down

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Posted: April 29 2010 at 11:02

Henry Plainview wrote:

I'm tired of 40 years of people making threads complaining about people complaining about ELP.

wentka wrote:

Their music isn't for everybody - it's complicated.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who don't like ELP can't appreciate complicated music? ELP is not exactly the most technical music ever written.

wentka wrote:

Now let's get to the "Pretentious" part. These three guys are uber talented musicians. Because of that, they challenged themselves, they challenged their audience, and they challenged the established rules. So I dismiss this charge. It's not pretentious, it's innovative.

Some would say that playing pieces written a hundred years ago isn't exactly moving forward...

wentka wrote:

I think that all the ELP bashing is nothing more than reverse snobbery.

So they secretly like ELP but won't admit it?

Critics that bash ELP aren't musicians. And if they are, they're just envious of the talent.

Hahahaha! Do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

You hit the nail.!

Hoodlum

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Joined: April 29 2010
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Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:39

ELP are one of the many bands that I like, yeah. I don't know how much more I can say other than that I enjoy their music and never found it boring... refreshing would rather be the word. Possibly my favourite album of theirs is the self-titled debut.

But yeah most people have followed the critics' opinions and denounced them as sh*t. But seriously, what's a better listen, ELP or the Sex Pistols? I know which one I'd choose.

Edited by Hoodlum - April 29 2010 at 19:40

stonebeard View Drop Down

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Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:49

wentka wrote:

Every time I read a review of ELP, the words "bombastic" , "pretentious", and "arrogant" are used. I don't know who the first critic was that used these words to describe them, but every critic since has regergated and perpetuated this. I would venture to guess that every critic that repeats this has never sat down and gave ELP a listen.

"Bombastic"? Because Keith Emerson played a grand piano and toured with that beast of a Moog synthesizer? Because Carl Palmer's drum kit was on a stand that rotated? Because Greg Lake preferred to stand on a persion rug (that covered a multitude of twisted wires - because he had been electrocuted one too many times)? What's bombastic about that? Now let's get to the "Pretentious" part. These three guys are uber talented musicians. Because of that, they challenged themselves, they challenged their audience, and they challenged the established rules. So I dismiss this charge. It's not pretentious, it's innovative. Now comes the evil "arrogant". I give this a "maybe" or even a "yes". So I say to you - so what?! These guys busted their asses for every recording (in the early days) and every live show. Yes, they wanted it all to be perfect. And when it wasn't perfect, they got pissed. Sure wish more musicians creating music cared that much about their output.

I think that all the ELP bashing is nothing more than reverse snobbery. Critics that bash ELP aren't musicians. And if they are, they're just envious of the talent. Nobody said you have to like ELP. Their music isn't for everybody - it's complicated. If you don't like it, you don't like it. But enough with bashing. If you're going to write a review, make it a genuine effort and stop repeating the same 40 years of "bombastic", "pretentious", and "arrogant".

I prefer to describe ELP as somewhat talented rock musicians trying way too hard to make really deep music but failing to realize that they are just w**king all over the place with crap keyboard sounds and a pathetic lack of parsimony.

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presdoug

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Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:44

Hoodlum wrote:

ELP are one of the many bands that I like, yeah. I don't know how much more I can say other than that I enjoy their music and never found it boring... refreshing would rather be the word. Possibly my favourite album of theirs is the self-titled debut.

But yeah most people have followed the critics' opinions and denounced them as sh*t. But seriously, what's a better listen, ELP or the Sex Pistols? I know which one I'd choose.

I concurr with what you are saying-ELP have created rock music that is artistic, intelligent, and creative, whereas the Pistols, well a lot of people like them, but they are "non-music music". For me, if there ever was a band i truly love to bash, it is the Clash-hey, let's bash the Clash!