Exciting News: New sister site for METAL online !

Negoba wrote: Are there any other metal sites that are fueled by user reviews quite in the way PA is?   In the end, the quality of the database, charts, and reviews are what people want. The bios aren't the make or break item, at least for me. Certainly, the better everything is, the better chance for success.

micky wrote: debrewguy wrote: if I may rain a bit on the parade - I steadily lose more & more interest for MMA each time I go & read bios. jesus christ Claude... the site is new.. and still finding it's legs.  If a metal fan.. and if you give two sh*ts... offer to help.. otherwise...  try to learn a thing called patience. If not a metal fan...  hahhaha.....  what is your problem then ... does happiness only come from pissing on things. Find a pop site to piss on.. surely much more deserving you would think hahaha.

I believe they have a right freakin' monkey on the Admin Team now... 

micky wrote: debrewguy wrote: if I may rain a bit on the parade - I steadily lose more & more interest for MMA each time I go & read bios. jesus christ Claude... the site is new.. and still finding it's legs. DB - I don't see how that would matter to those metal fans that are regular visitors to BNR ? If you're a PA fan or supporter, then MMA's growing pains don't matter. If you're not, then the judgement is based on what you see now.  If a metal fan.. and if you give two sh*ts... offer to help.. otherwise...  try to learn a thing called patience. DB - Fan of metal among many different types of music. I gave my two cents' worth. I have no interest in doing work for PA's sister site. I have no hint as to why that seems to mean that I can't offer an opinion. Being a PA denizen, I may well go back every now & then to check it out. I just said that some visitors to that site may not find reason to come back a second or third time.  I sincerely wish the site & Max all the luck in the world with MMA. Doesn't mean that I should unquestionably rave about it , now does it ? If not a metal fan...  hahhaha.....  what is your problem then ... does happiness only come from pissing on things. Find a pop site to piss on.. surely much more deserving you would think hahaha.

DB - Sir, I offered nothing more than  my own experience and opinion. I spoke of what the site is competing with now, not how it may compare once more work is accomplished.
 
I felt that in our enthusiasm in talking up Max's new project we purposely overlooked how it stacks up against at what else is out there for the metal fan.

Will it improve ? Time will tell. Is it THE metal site to visit ? No proof of that, nor any ranking that I know of. But it's not the site I go to first when I'm looking for metal stuff (bios, reviews, news and such) .

BUT ... PA is THE site that I go for the prog scene. Gibraltar sometimes, ProgFreak only because of PA's page. 

debrewguy wrote: micky wrote: debrewguy wrote: if I may rain a bit on the parade - I steadily lose more & more interest for MMA each time I go & read bios. jesus christ Claude... the site is new.. and still finding it's legs. DB - I don't see how that would matter to those metal fans that are regular visitors to BNR ? If you're a PA fan or supporter, then MMA's growing pains don't matter. If you're not, then the judgement is based on what you see now. No site starts like if it's complete. Even Metal-archives and other ones must have been quite weak at the beginning. This is an ongoing process. Maybe right now we pale in comparison with other websites. But it's with our work that it will check. No website of this kind starts already being perfect.   If a metal fan.. and if you give two sh*ts... offer to help.. otherwise...  try to learn a thing called patience. DB - Fan of metal among many different types of music. I gave my two cents' worth. I have no interest in doing work for PA's sister site. I have no hint as to why that seems to mean that I can't offer an opinion. Being a PA denizen, I may well go back every now & then to check it out. I just said that some visitors to that site may not find reason to come back a second or third time.  I sincerely wish the site & Max all the luck in the world with MMA. Doesn't mean that I should unquestionably rave about it , now does it ? Some visitors may not. But some will. And many more people will join. We will succeed if we attract at least 5% of the regular metal internet visitors. Each year we'll grow. PA was much weaker at the beginning.  If not a metal fan...  hahhaha.....  what is your problem then ... does happiness only come from pissing on things. Find a pop site to piss on.. surely much more deserving you would think hahaha.  DB - Sir, I offered nothing more than  my own experience and opinion. I spoke of what the site is competing with now, not how it may compare once more work is accomplished.   I felt that in our enthusiasm in talking up Max's new project we purposely overlooked how it stacks up against at what else is out there for the metal fan.   It will compare poorly, of course, with sites that have more than 5 years on the internet. INCLUDING PA.  Will it improve ? Time will tell. Is it THE metal site to visit ? No proof of that, nor any ranking that I know of. But it's not the site I go to first when I'm looking for metal stuff (bios, reviews, news and such) .   Right now it's NOT THE best metal site online. But it has the potential. The potential of an amazing group of people that have made THIS THE prog site on the web. It would be quite ridiculous to pretend that with one month on the air MMA could already be "the site to go"  BUT ... PA is THE site that I go for the prog scene. Gibraltar sometimes, ProgFreak only because of PA's page.   Again, you can't compare a site with more than 5 years existence vs one with one month....

Thats interesting.. have seen the website..Its good..Let me know one thing .. The reviews can be same for both or we have to make differnt for each..< id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" ="">

^Not at all. I know what you're talking about, MMA is still not Metal-Archives in terms of completeness... Where we disagree is when you feel disappointed because of that. I see it as an opportunity. I see it as a mere sign that the site is new. If I didn't believe in MMA, I wouldn't want to be an admin there would I? 

The T wrote: ^Not at all. I know what you're talking about, MMA is still not Metal-Archives in terms of completeness... Where we disagree is when you feel disappointed because of that. I see it as an opportunity. I see it as a mere sign that the site is new. If I didn't believe in MMA, I wouldn't want to be an admin there would I?

I made the comment as a comparison. Mainly because all I kept seeing in this thread is how great MMA is and great it's going  to be. I still check it out on occasion. Just because I'm into PA.
Which may not be enough to bring it to PA's level of "success".

So just to make this clear - this is not to say that MMA will never be, or can never become a great music web site. It is not to say that it is complete crap. It is simply to point out that the typical metal head (and likely non regular PA person) visiting the site isn't interested in what it may become, nor what the same group of people has accomplished at PA. The product will be judged at the time of the visit.

That PA and numerous other sites were at the same stage years ago is immaterial.

I didn't buy one of the first Hyundai sold in Canada. Which is great, because they were money pit pieces of crap. I do own one now. And i based my decision on what the product offered me now. Not later. Same as with my cable service, my phone provider, and books or magazines. I'm not looking to invest for the future. I'm paying for something specific that I want now (and yes, the time spent surfing a site can be seen as payment - time is money)

I wish y'all the luck in the world, & won't be surprised if it does attract attention. But please, ignoring the fact that long established and successful metal sites are what MMA is competing against is not a good idea. Unless the name sites stumble, you can't expect every new visitor to MMA to keep coming back just to see if things get better than BNR or Metal Archives, Blabbermouth or whatever other metal sites are out there.

I know there are tons of prog rock sites out there. Outside of PA, I now visit Gibraltar on occasion, and that's about it. The rest I "stumble" across if I'm searching out a band or album -I google on it, if you will. "Cause I found one site that delivers what I am looking for on a regular basis.

The reality is that MMA will need to get up to THEIR level quick. Otherwise, each person who checks MMA out and figures , in their opinion, that they like other metal sites better (for whatever reason) , isn't going to be interested about how new a site is. And you can't count on those first time visitors to keep coming back to MMA if they find another site more interesting.

ExittheLemming wrote: debrewguy wrote: The T wrote: ^Not at all. I know what you're talking about, MMA is still not Metal-Archives in terms of completeness... Where we disagree is when you feel disappointed because of that. I see it as an opportunity. I see it as a mere sign that the site is new. If I didn't believe in MMA, I wouldn't want to be an admin there would I?    I made the comment as a comparison. Mainly because all I kept seeing in this thread is how great MMA is and great it's going  to be. I still check it out on occasion. Just because I'm into PA. Which may not be enough to bring it to PA's level of "success". So just to make this clear - this is not to say that MMA will never be, or can never become a great music web site. It is not to say that it is complete crap. It is simply to point out that the typical metal head (and likely non regular PA person) visiting the site isn't interested in what it may become, nor what the same group of people has accomplished at PA. The product will be judged at the time of the visit. That PA and numerous other sites were at the same stage years ago is immaterial. I didn't buy one of the first Hyundai sold in Canada. Which is great, because they were money pit pieces of crap. I do own one now. And i based my decision on what the product offered me now. Not later. Same as with my cable service, my phone provider, and books or magazines. I'm not looking to invest for the future. I'm paying for something specific that I want now (and yes, the time spent surfing a site can be seen as payment - time is money) I wish y'all the luck in the world, & won't be surprised if it does attract attention. But please, ignoring the fact that long established and successful metal sites are what MMA is competing against is not a good idea. Unless the name sites stumble, you can't expect every new visitor to MMA to keep coming back just to see if things get better than BNR or Metal Archives, Blabbermouth or whatever other metal sites are out there. I know there are tons of prog rock sites out there. Outside of PA, I now visit Gibraltar on occasion, and that's about it. The rest I "stumble" across if I'm searching out a band or album -I google on it, if you will. "Cause I found one site that delivers what I am looking for on a regular basis. The reality is that MMA will need to get up to THEIR level quick. Otherwise, each person who checks MMA out and figures , in their opinion, that they like other metal sites better (for whatever reason) , isn't going to be interested about how new a site is. And you can't count on those first time visitors to keep coming back to MMA if they find another site more interesting. Might just be me, but I can't make any sense of this post. The following may be illustrative: I married my wife when she was 27. To prevent her 'getting away' I could have proposed when she was 7, but she was neither an adult or a woman then and I wouldn't have recognised her as the same divine creature she turned into. You have to let the new site develop and grow before it can be judged as an attractive alternative to other longer established metal portals. (and I don't even like metal)

O.K., folks, everybody take a valium & let's see if I can make a few things clear(er)

1) I did not say that MMA should or could match up instantly to other long established sites. I simply stated that MMA is going to be compared to them. And your regular average joe web surfer isn't thinking about how new MMA is when he's comparing it to other sites. Unless you have proof otherwise, please re-consider what that says.The reality is "X vs Y/Z" - today, now, not next week .

(PA five years ago was compared to other sites at that time. How many prog sites were there back then, how long had they been around, and how good were they ? That would be an excellent exercise if you're going to use that comparison vis a vis MMA and established metal sites_

2) There is no requirement for the web "public" to give a site the chance to develop & grow before it is judged. Judgement is made each visit. The audience, the consumer, settles on an opinion when they want to. And that can often be on the first visit. Think of it - how many times will there be no second chances ? Or, to put it another way - Google search results are not generated by a site's potential - only by popularity. The site needs to get up to speed as quick as possible to make the most of its' chances.
(Please keep in mind that not all PA members will be interested in a metal site, and that not all metal fans are interested in a PA site. Success will come because metal fans see the site as one they like or love to visit. And that will be because of what the site offers now, not what it may eventually have)

3) Nowhere, absolutely nowhere did I say, state or even insinuate that MMA was a failure, dead before arrival, lost cause no hope, skeletal ghost illusion of out of this world proportions run by blinded incompetents who deluded themselves in thinking that it was the greatest thing in the world since Debrewguy darkened PA petit-monde.

(THOUGH IT SURE FEELS THAT WAY FROM MY SIDE. And frankly, if at best I stated the obvious , why couldn't I  find any "negative" comments about the new site from others ? Did we want to hide from the challenges that are being faced by the new site ? Is it a bad idea when you're setting up an enterprise to openly talk about what you're up against, or is it better to just indulge in  "fanboy" talk ? I saw that the bios were done the way they were to speed up the initial set up. And as far as I can tell, the general consensus is that they'll be gone as soon as they can be written up proper )

4) Help ... playing Devil's advocate is to question assumptions, to force others to think and confront things that they may not want to , or might not have thought of. Cheering your players/ team-mates on is great, but along the line someone has to do the dirty work of questioning things, and bringing up the messy areas that may need to be addressed . So far, all I saw was rah rah rah company man cheers. Folks, saying we're going to be great when we get better isn't all that is needed. You have to look at what is required to get & keep people coming in until you reach to your eventual goal.
(a business lives and dies on a daily basis. Hyundai got a second chance. It took years to overcome their initial reputation in North America for building money pit crap cars. Renault didn't. Honda,  quickly grew their market share with decent quality small (& eventually medium & full size) cars that built on word of mouth when compared to the Big 3. Subaru still hasn't matched that success. Yet, their vehicles match Honda's in quality.)

This is where MMA may hold the wild card - by becoming the most accurate , authoritative & extensive metal music site on the web. Olav, that , in a nutshell, will be the clincher. PA proves that. Other sites exists, each with their qualities, but PA stands out as THE one stop spot. SO get it right as much as you can as fast as you can.)

So please, take a step back and re-read my clearer posts. I'm just saying there's work to be done, that some of it needs to be accomplished quickly, and that no amount potential matters if the market has gone elsewhere once you reach your goal.

I agree with Olav, that the authority & knowledge of the offering can make a big difference going up against some of the sites. But no one here knows if that is being noted by the visitors, nor whether that will be enough to keep the site attractive to your average metal head until MMA meets PA's internet gold standard.

Keep working, but keep hard facts  in mind

oh, and get back on the meds ...




Edited by debrewguy - April 16 2010 at 12:40

^

Edited by Chris S - April 16 2010 at 14:19