Tired of 40 years of ELP Bashing

M27Barney wrote: wentka wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: It takes the music away from the kids in da street bro. To further deepen said hacks gloom, the fact that ELP drew upon European classical music as a well of inspiration does not sit easily with their estimation that if it ain't lowest common denominator accessible it ain't worthy. Throw in a smidgen of covert racism i.e. not sourced from black contemporary forms, not cyclic rhymically (you can't dance or get laid to it), not ostentiously emotive (soulful ?)and you have all the barbs in place.   Thank you.  I agree completely. Right then, now we have established that there isn't a woman (on planet earth) over 16 that you wouldn't shag how does that possibly tie in with ELP's propensity to have genius and utter dross on the same album ? To be fair ELP were NEVER my favourite band and sort of hated them because their on-stage antics were always used to tar all 70's prog rock with the same brush....

I'm sure Yes played their part, with Spinal Tap style pods on stage, and three day long epics based on the autobiography of a Yogi.. Gabriels Slipperman was no picnic either..

I know what you mean though. ELP did seem to be held up as an example of how awful prog was. Totally unfair, of course and wide of the mark. All the big prog bands of the day were completely unique in my opinion. ELP were my least favourite, but they did have moments of excellence and their talent is obvious. Music journo's know bog all about music anyway.

I'm just getting into ELP. I have very little recollection of what they were perceived as when I was growing up, but certainly those 3 phrases come up time and again.  Lazy journalism?? Wouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Of course, not everyone has to like the music of ELP, and some criticisms do stand, like some naff lyrics here and there, joke songs or fillers, depending on your point of view, but I for one, am really enjoying getting into their music. 

You have to remember that most critics probably listen to an album once and then write their review.  They don't have time to listen to an album a bunch of times, or spend time with it, to get to know it, before writing their review.  They need to get their review out there, so people can read it before or right when an album is being released.  That is their job.  And since a lot of prog rock is not music that is not gonna grab you right away at first, it is easy to just dismiss it as pretentious, over the top, etc., and at some point, that stereotype stuck, and critics just cling it to when discussing what is wrong with the genre.  Granted, a lot of prog rock IS pretentious and over the top, so when they hear what they think of as just another prog rock CD, they just lump it in with all of the others and fall back to sl*gging it back on that generalized stereotype.  It is lazy writing, but what do you expect? 

Agree. ELP was pretentious and bombastic as many of the prog bands of the `70s. So what's the problem? If I hear or read those adjectives, I will go to the there. I love progressive rock, and I like when it is bombastic or even pretentious. The best side of ELP becomes when they are bombastic, specially Emerson. 

Man I can't believe some things I have read here.   I certainly hope ELP never reads this stuff.  The last thing I want is a band that changes trying to meet expectations of some of their fan base.  I like ELP for what they are and what they have been.  There are only two albums in their catalog that have little redeeming qualities mainly because they were record company obligations and that was Works Vol 2 and The Hot Seat and they did not put in the necessary work to make them good.  Other than that I can find great stuff on every album including Love Beach.  (The main problem with that album is the packaging).  

To spread the ELP love, here's what looks like a documentary of the Isle of Wight gig that's just recently gone up on youtube. I've not seen it before, don't know how old it is. Enjoy.

ELP Isle of Wight 1970 1/7
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZopfLuA0_8Y&feature=related

You can catch the other parts whilst there.


Edited by Kojak - April 18 2010 at 11:05

Kojak wrote: To spread the ELP love, here's what looks like a documentary of the Isle of Wight gig that's just recently gone up on youtube. I've not seen it before, don't know how old it is. Enjoy. ELP Isle of Wight 1970 1/7 www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZopfLuA0_8Y&feature=related You can catch the other parts whilst there.

Really good stuff. I havn't see it before and will need to revisit it to watch the other parts.

moshkito wrote: presdoug wrote: ELP bashing is as stupid as Triumvirat "ELP clone" nonsense, and that is saying something!    What people sometimes do not realize is how much of an impact a keyboard player had on the music scene in Europe ... it was huge, and the number of keyboard players that came up at the time was huge, and some were good and some were not as good.   Triumvirat and Kayak, and Eloy for that matter, were first introduced by the Harvest label ... and guess whose family that was? ... yep, one band that had become really famous for its own keyboard sound too!   These bands were not "clones" ... they were people that were doing their own thing and they deserve the right and the respect for their abilities and having tried it. We have no right to call them idiots simply because the organ sound is the same in every song, even though it is with different notes and what not.   If we're going to talk about "MUSIC" and develop "PROG" or "PROGRESSIVE", we must learn to accept each musicians' view of the music in different parts of the world. It's just like people going around saying that Banco and PFM sound like ELP, and they don't ... not even close! Even if they showed up on Manticore! ... in fact, it shows the respect that the ELP folks had for many of these people!   A lot more than we are showing here, btw!  How would you feel if you were one of them?

In looking back at the post of mine that you just quoted, i did not realise that what i stated could be taken the wrong way, possibly-Triumvirat "ELP clone" nonsense, refers to the reference to the group's sound as being a direct copy or "clone" of ELP. This is what i think is nonsense-in one of my other previous posts, i give credit to Triumvirat creating refreshing rock music, and having always been a  group in their own right. As you have pointed out, there were alot of groups influenced by ELP, but not necessarily "clones"

I've always felt that when something/someone is called pretentious, what the person calling it usually means is, 'I don't understand that,' or 'I wish I had thought of that.' 

TODDLER wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: HTCF wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: For me, Love Beach was their big stumble.  I liked the Works, particularly Pirates and the Emerson classical pieces.  The earlier albums are really good.  Their earlier albums had some humorous moments, which some believe doesn't belong in prog, but to hell with them.   EXACTLY Pirates is boss They'll soon have pennies on their eyes. If you don't like what I like, you are evil and must be destroyed.   I remember long ago enjoying a filmed concert of the band with an orchestra. The performance of 'Pirates" in particular was having an effect on me. Works volume one felt and was in reality solo approach efforts. Works volume two has this rumour to it....that various tracks were actually written during the Trilogy sessions.....although I have never seen such info printed but, throughout decades ELP fans I met had an idea derived from something or the other had them convinced of this fact.

Much of Works Volume 2 was just 'leftovers' from B-sides,solo hits and rejected tracks from other albums. There was no secret about this. Even the supposedly new song 'Tiger In A Spotlight' was a reworking of a peice of music that ELP performed live around about 1971 (name escapes me).Works Vol 2 was as much a contractural obligation album as Love Beach.