The Christian Thread

The Bible also has Jesus speaking to a fever (Luke 4:39), but that doesn't mean a fever exists as a personal being. 

The thing about all this is that we in the West over the centuries have piled on so much regarding what it means to be a Christian.  There's a long list of things a person has to accept before joining certain churches, but this seriously complicates the matter.  Nowhere does the Bible say that we must believe that demons exist to be saved.

It is very strange, though, that people commonly speak of demons, and yet there is no strong evidence showing that demons exist today.  Physicians can pinpoint causes for most of the known ailments of the world.  But as I've said a hundred times over, the Bible is not a medical or scientific textbook.  It does, however, reflect people's understanding of the world at a relatively unsophisticated time.  There are dozens of ideas and beliefs people in the Bible 2000 years ago held, but we reject them because we simply know better.  Just because people in biblical times believed in demons, and the Bible reports this, does not mean demons actually exist. 

In the same way, 2000 years from now (presumably at this rate), people will understand much more than we do about the world.

Epignosis wrote: As for the Pope question, let me rephrase it: What would be the consequences if the current Pope denied Jesus Christ three times publicly?  Would he be defrocked or demoted in the papacy?

Hmmm. Interesting question Robert, because given that my church has still not officially denounced the infallibility of the Pope doctrine artificially introduced as a concept in the 19th Century, presumably we would all have to either accept his infallible word or watch as the men in white coats rushed him off to the nearest home.

Going back to your points about demons, I agree. I am currently encouraging my son to learn more about the universe and science in general. Having spent a good part of last night gazing at wondrous images from across the cosmos, I think to myself that the more that we learn about the physical makeup of "life, the universe, and everything", the more we actually realise there is still to learn.

To me, advances in scientific discovery and faith are completely compatible. We live in an incredible and wondrous universe, and the more we discover, as compared to the Bible scholars of 2,000 years and more ago, the more I believe that there is a unifying force that binds it all together.

Some of us call him/her God.

Epignosis wrote: The Bible also has Jesus speaking to a fever (Luke 4:39), but that doesn't mean a fever exists as a personal being.  The thing about all this is that we in the West over the centuries have piled on so much regarding what it means to be a Christian.  There's a long list of things a person has to accept before joining certain churches, but this seriously complicates the matter.  Nowhere does the Bible say that we must believe that demons exist to be saved. It is very strange, though, that people commonly speak of demons, and yet there is no strong evidence showing that demons exist today.  Physicians can pinpoint causes for most of the known ailments of the world.  But as I've said a hundred times over, the Bible is not a medical or scientific textbook.  It does, however, reflect people's understanding of the world at a relatively unsophisticated time.  There are dozens of ideas and beliefs people in the Bible 2000 years ago held, but we reject them because we simply know better.  Just because people in biblical times believed in demons, and the Bible reports this, does not mean demons actually exist.  In the same way, 2000 years from now (presumably at this rate), people will understand much more than we do about the world.

That point has always bugged me.

jampa17 wrote: Epignosis wrote: As for the Pope question, let me rephrase it: What would be the consequences if the current Pope denied Jesus Christ three times publicly?  Would he be defrocked or demoted in the papacy?   I'm with you most of the time Rob... I can deal with the non existence of the soul, and the physical existence of God and still being a Catholic... (I'm not saying that I believe it, but I don't see problem with your point of view) and even some priests with whom I've speak, they don't even care about the Devil, at all... so there's no problem if you don't believe in him... my problem is to buy (at list in your last article you send me) that Jesus made the pigs go drowned in the lake just to show the guy that his illness won't come back... I mean, that is really not probable to happen, but I understand the point of calling the demons as deseases. I can deal with it, it's OK... but the words Jesus and Legion share in the current chapter are very realistic to me, and there I found a problem.   My brother is way more fond in the Bible and he is very smart at it, and he always explain me about it. I'm not sure, but I believe that even if the Devil exists or not, it has nothing to do with us. Our goal to fullfill the 10 commandments is what we need and love... and the devil can't do nothing about it...   mmm... about the question... I'm not sure man... because remember that in John, Peter was ask three times by Jesus if he loved him... so, you can't know if the Pope would recieve that direct absolution as Peter... you know what I mean...?

I see what you are asking about now regarding the swine, Juan.  I'll research the significance further and get back to you about it. 

A Person wrote: Epignosis wrote: The Bible also has Jesus speaking to a fever (Luke 4:39), but that doesn't mean a fever exists as a personal being.  The thing about all this is that we in the West over the centuries have piled on so much regarding what it means to be a Christian.  There's a long list of things a person has to accept before joining certain churches, but this seriously complicates the matter.  Nowhere does the Bible say that we must believe that demons exist to be saved. It is very strange, though, that people commonly speak of demons, and yet there is no strong evidence showing that demons exist today.  Physicians can pinpoint causes for most of the known ailments of the world.  But as I've said a hundred times over, the Bible is not a medical or scientific textbook.  It does, however, reflect people's understanding of the world at a relatively unsophisticated time.  There are dozens of ideas and beliefs people in the Bible 2000 years ago held, but we reject them because we simply know better.  Just because people in biblical times believed in demons, and the Bible reports this, does not mean demons actually exist.  In the same way, 2000 years from now (presumably at this rate), people will understand much more than we do about the world. That point has always bugged me.

How so?

Discuss

Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: Discuss No.

But that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Oh god, I don't want a rainbow thread to start!

"I have not forgotten about this, dude.  Just give me a day or two.  I have found my notes about the subject and I've begun "distilling" them into something hopefully coherent and readable (), so just be patient with me!  "