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halabalushindigus 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2009
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 1438
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 Topic: stereo micing- whats your technique?
Posted: April 25 2010 at 01:25 |
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bass is trickey. A simple line in may be the best bet. But definetly try not to use noise-reduction as this takes the highs and lows away a bit. I like the two mic with the one near the cone and maybe the other one away to take in the overall room sound. Just experiment and see what sounds best. You'll get there. I found it hard to get a straight "crunch" sound with guitar (without pedals) but using a mtriad of loops and what not , you can find the sound, even if your ZZtop sound comes out sounding like Dylan, keep trying. That's the fun of it
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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el_macleod
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 18 2009
Location: Singapore.
Status: Offline
Points: 25
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Posted: April 24 2010 at 22:30 |
 leifthewarrior wrote:
Recording sound : progressive rock, power metal, sounds like : Andromeda, dream theater, frost*, vai, the lighter stuff sounds like the flower kings, magenta, IQ, Ayreon (later stuff)
Im actually using a Mbox2 pro and running on pro tools six :( I have two Audio Technica 2020’s though I wish I had some 4033’s at least. If i had a TLM 103 then I would probably just record twice and blend the tracks( don’t know if that would be practical with the guitars). What I have been doing is trying to face the diaphragm of the mic almost directly over the speaker where the cone and the dust cap meet. I do this to two different speakers. Obviously trying the keep both microphone diaphragms the same distance from the speakers as to avoid cancelation. I guess what my biggest question is. When capturing the sound of an amp using two mics, is my ultimate goal to try and match the sound being captured in each mic. Or do I want one mic to capture a more treblelish tone while the other captures more middyer or bassier tones, and then blend them? Should I use various techniques depending on whether I am recording rhythm tracs(to try and make a wall of guitar sound) or if im recording a solo trac (use the blending technique)?
I usually apply a noise gate digitally via pro tool’s but never can seem to get it just right without getting to choppy. I know that comes with experience and understanding the mechanics of the noise gate. I also usually dont apply any other effects to the guitar sound other then reverb, sometimes. I may apply some chorus/ delay effects to the lead guitar to try and mimic a vai sound (i love Vai’s sound for songs like “Kum-Pee-Du-Wee” “Glorious” “building the church”)
Also, I have been recording bass through a line six pod, then plugged into the mbox. I have to cut so much bass (usually around the 150-300hz range). Then I boost the upper frequencies. I do this because there is always so much drowning bass. then I end up with a clicky bass sound. maybe Im doing something completely wrong. as I write this i realize I suck!!! Anyway, what is your all’s recommendations on recording bass? Should I just record it line in, using the mbox as my direct box? Get a separate direct box and plug into the mbox? Im so lost!!! |
Well I guess the first thing you need to work out (as various posters have already mentioned) is what exactly you're trying to achieve with the sound. 2020's aren't particularly good Guitar mikes, but they're decent and given some experimentation I'm sure you can find an optimal preference to your miking patterns etc.
• One thing to look out for: The Hissy sound that you're getting is actually caused by you putting the mike directly over the cone. Don't put your mike directly in front of the cone, put it slightly off centre (about a third of the distance from the edge of the cone will do, facing head on). The centre of the cone tends to emphasise a lot of unwanted high frequencies.
• Another thing to look out for: Depending on what you're trying to achieve, When you're trying to capture the amp's sound... you don't really need to have 2 mikes capturing the same thing. Or you might as well just have one mike  Try miking one right up close on the amp, and the other a slight distance away (maybe about a foot or two) and blend them together. If there's a lot of phase cancellation going on, then invert the signal of the one going further away.
This should ideally give you a setup that you can just setup and leave - any differences for your solos and rhythm can be adjusted with your own tone, EQ, etc
• Bass usually sounds pretty okay when recorded line in, but if it's getting incredibly muddy then one problem might be just that your Bass tone sucks . This is easily solved though, cos you can just post some demos online and ask people what's wrong with it.
• For Bass muddiness, You could try an EQ that reduces frequencies below 50 Hz or so (reducing, not cutting), pumping your 100 - 180 Hz (for a bit more growl), reducing 300 Hz - 700 Hz by about 3-6 db, and boosting about 3 kHz about 2 db. You don't want to be cutting out anything below 300 Hz, since it's a very important range for the Bass guitar.
Hope this helps, tell us how it goes!
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... Yes, that was Random.
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paganinio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1327
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Posted: April 12 2010 at 05:11 |
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I have a pair of tiny speakers in my bedroom. That's all I need.f
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halabalushindigus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2009
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 1438
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Posted: April 10 2010 at 02:31 |
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mic'ing an amplifier for recording is a bitch. Same thing with a piano. Where to put the mic? Take your Carvin v3 half-stack and set it in the batroom, close the doors, and play. Now you should double track. Normally, or always, I double track a voice with two seperate takes, then pan each one away from each other. On guitar, however, I would double track by sending the output of the channel straight on to the input of the next channel, and not simul-sync. But only punch in the "double sound" at sweet times, like solos
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 09:04 |
Negoba wrote:
It depends on the room. On heavy distorted guitars the mids are what matters the most, so that's why just jamming an SM57 in front of the cone works so well. My standard metal sound is to actually record two takes and hard left those right and left. But in general, a room mic is trying to get reflections and higher frequencies so you move it around the room and see what you get. You're not trying to get a good sound out of that mic, you're trying to get the sparkle and harmonics that get drowned out by close micing. You can even cut alot of the low frequencies out of that track (which is often room rumble anyway) and then just add those harmonics in.
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Interesting... I will do that... and check it out... thanks... I will post the results or my impressions here for sharing... thanks... have a nice day...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 19:25 |
It depends on the room. On heavy distorted guitars the mids are what matters the most, so that's why just jamming an SM57 in front of the cone works so well. My standard metal sound is to actually record two takes and hard left those right and left. But in general, a room mic is trying to get reflections and higher frequencies so you move it around the room and see what you get. You're not trying to get a good sound out of that mic, you're trying to get the sparkle and harmonics that get drowned out by close micing. You can even cut alot of the low frequencies out of that track (which is often room rumble anyway) and then just add those harmonics in.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 10:25 |
Negoba wrote:
I do think there is something to having air in your signal chain, especially for distorted guitars. I sometimes actually do both and mix those signals, or even use those two signals as the hard left and right. The thing is to experiment and see what you get and what you like. Some guitars that sound great through a PA sound terrible recorded and sometimes you can get some really interesting things on record with a junk guitar that's otherwise noisy or useless. Just experiment and see what you like. |
yeah... I was thinking of using mics for my next recording... I know that with some air in there, the distor sounds a little more organic and less "plastic" but at least in my first demos, I love the sound direct to the console... the console is an old one with tubes, so it gave strentgh to the record, I'm sure in a digital console it might not worked as it did... Jay, for heavy distorded guitars, how you put the mics in the room... I'm interested? You use it stereo with two mics?
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 20:27 |
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I do think there is something to having air in your signal chain, especially for distorted guitars. I sometimes actually do both and mix those signals, or even use those two signals as the hard left and right. The thing is to experiment and see what you get and what you like. Some guitars that sound great through a PA sound terrible recorded and sometimes you can get some really interesting things on record with a junk guitar that's otherwise noisy or useless. Just experiment and see what you like.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 09:56 |
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agree with Jay... if what you want is a wall of distor, the double tracking of rythm guitars mixed L and R is what you are up to. I recorded my songs that way and the result is quite good, but I didn't used mics to that... just from the pedalboard direct to the console... so I didn't used mics but I'm planing to do it next week and see what can happen...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 15:30 |
Generally the reason to use multiple mics is to capture the full range of frequencies so you have more to shape later. What you're doing is not going to add much to your tone than using a single mic IMO. But for rhythm guitar, that is often the sound you're going for anyway. Big round compressed tone seems to be your goal, so having a room mic may not be necessary. If you're more into Devy and really wanting "wall of sound" then yeah you'll want something that's capturing alot of reflections.
Frankly, I would suggest getting good at a simple setup with doubled rhythm guitars L and R and a nice lead tone up the middle. Bass, snare, bass drum, and lead vox need to be in the middle too. Get comfortable using the reverb, EQ, and Compression you have. Those are by far the most important "effects" to use as part of mixing. A gate that sounds choppy on a single track can actually sound fine on the final mix because other reverb trails will be filling space.
I'll shut up and let other people put their two cents in.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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leifthewarrior
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 03 2008
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 15:05 |
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Recording sound : progressive rock, power metal, sounds like : Andromeda, dream theater, frost*, vai, the lighter stuff sounds like the flower kings, magenta, IQ, Ayreon (later stuff)
Im actually using a Mbox2 pro and running on pro tools six :( I have two Audio Technica 2020’s though I wish I had some 4033’s at least. If i had a TLM 103 then I would probably just record twice and blend the tracks( don’t know if that would be practical with the guitars). What I have been doing is trying to face the diaphragm of the mic almost directly over the speaker where the cone and the dust cap meet. I do this to two different speakers. Obviously trying the keep both microphone diaphragms the same distance from the speakers as to avoid cancelation. I guess what my biggest question is. When capturing the sound of an amp using two mics, is my ultimate goal to try and match the sound being captured in each mic. Or do I want one mic to capture a more treblelish tone while the other captures more middyer or bassier tones, and then blend them? Should I use various techniques depending on whether I am recording rhythm tracs(to try and make a wall of guitar sound) or if im recording a solo trac (use the blending technique)?
I usually apply a noise gate digitally via pro tool’s but never can seem to get it just right without getting to choppy. I know that comes with experience and understanding the mechanics of the noise gate. I also usually dont apply any other effects to the guitar sound other then reverb, sometimes. I may apply some chorus/ delay effects to the lead guitar to try and mimic a vai sound (i love Vai’s sound for songs like “Kum-Pee-Du-Wee” “Glorious” “building the church”)
Also, I have been recording bass through a line six pod, then plugged into the mbox. I have to cut so much bass (usually around the 150-300hz range). Then I boost the upper frequencies. I do this because there is always so much drowning bass. then I end up with a clicky bass sound. maybe Im doing something completely wrong. as I write this i realize I suck!!! Anyway, what is your all’s recommendations on recording bass? Should I just record it line in, using the mbox as my direct box? Get a separate direct box and plug into the mbox? Im so lost!!!
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 13:38 |
Well figure out where the hiss is coming from first...if it's just amp noise a gate can help with that.
Then it depends what you're trying to achieve with stereo mic-ing. I've used multiple mics to capture different parts of the sound and then blend the signals. If you're going for some phase or chorus type effects, that's a lot trickier and you can end up with strange cancellations.
What kind of music are you playing and what are you trying to achieve?
If it's a distorted guitar tone that you're happy with and are just trying to get down on tape, try a close mic and a room mic and then blend. A big in your face recorded sound can come from just double tracking a rhythm part and then panning the two takes left and right. That eliminates the phase cancellations but you have to be pretty exact (it's actually a good skill to have anyway.)
Good luck.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 13:32 |
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 30 2010 at 13:32
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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leifthewarrior
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 03 2008
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 13:22 |
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Hello-
I have been experimenting with stereo micing various things in my home studio. Im trying to get a better sound on my amp (carvin v3 half stack). I often find myself setting up the mics in such a way that I get a very hissy higher frequency sound. I prefer more treble/ clarity, but cant seem to get that perfect milky mid I tend to lack. I have achieved it a few times, and yes I wrote down my set up. But I can't seem to keep it consistent.
So, I am looking for different Ideas. What is it that you guys do? What is your set up, If you're willing to give out some hints.
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stereo micing- whats your technique?
