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Dalezilla 
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 28 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 5113
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 Posted: April 05 2010 at 23:54 |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 00:00 |
 Padraic wrote:
Dalezilla wrote:
Padraic wrote:
But seriously Teo, try to imagine a thread here, where some other country gets sh*t on that much...it gets locked, the participants reprimanded at minimum.
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Well this is a thread about America, right? Obviously that's the country people are going to talk about.
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It should have been a thread that hopefully had some insightful, serious discussion about our health care system, not an excuse to trash the nation and its citizens because some of them have a different opinion than the majority on ProgArchives.
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There has been plenty of insightful and serious discussion about the issues raised here and there was nothing remotely 'hateful' about my original post  , critical and abrasively sarcastic yes, but you can't turn off and on your own constitution's cognisance of free speech like a faucet whenever its authors get slammed.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 08:51 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Dalezilla wrote:
Padraic wrote:
But seriously Teo, try to imagine a thread here, where some other country gets sh*t on that much...it gets locked, the participants reprimanded at minimum.
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Well this is a thread about America, right? Obviously that's the country people are going to talk about.
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It should have been a thread that hopefully had some insightful, serious discussion about our health care system, not an excuse to trash the nation and its citizens because some of them have a different opinion than the majority on ProgArchives.
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There has been plenty of insightful and serious discussion about the issues raised here and there was nothing remotely 'hateful' about my original post , critical and abrasively sarcastic yes, but you can't turn off and on your own constitution's cognisance of free speech like a faucet whenever its authors get slammed.
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First, free speech applies to the government/citizen relationship, not to messages posted on a privately-owned website. The admins here are easy testament that unfettered free speech doesn't exist here. Secondly, I never questioned your "right" to post what you did - I merely exercised my "free speech" and expressed my opinion of it. Anyway, continue to flame away - I don't care anymore.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 08:59 |
Padraic wrote:
Gee, thanks. Always good to see one's country insulted over and over again.Little wonder I barely visit this site anymore.
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What about all the people who claim our country is too inept to run a proper health care program?
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 09:11 |
Easy Money wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Gee, thanks. Always good to see one's country insulted over and over again.Little wonder I barely visit this site anymore.
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What about all the people who claim our country is too inept to run a proper health care program? |
Sorry John, I just don't have it in me to participate anymore. Last post in this thread, possibly on the entire site.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 09:32 |
The T wrote:
You tend to use "f**king" too much... I'd put you a big C- for that...   |
Late hour + beer
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 09:36 |
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You know Rob, after our conversation last night via PM (non-political), I can see why you have a different perspective on this. You belong to a really cool church that actually takes care of people, I'm impressed.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 09:49 |
Easy Money wrote:
You know Rob, after our conversation last night via PM (non-political), I can see why you have a different perspective on this. You belong to a really cool church that actually takes care of people, I'm impressed. |
It's part of what a church is supposed to do (Acts 2:42-47). Back when we were a little more well-off, we helped those who weren't, and since we've been in need, people have been very generous to us. (The church also gives me little stipend each week to play the electric guitar with the pianist   ).
It is just a shame though that the big movement right now is the filling of pews, the collection of money, and the grasping of political power- you won't find any of this mentioned as the church's purpose in the Bible. 
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 18:56 |
Does anyone want to take a guess at what 2-1/2 weeks in the hospital just cost my mother-in law? She had surgery for lymphoma, and Medicare will foot the bill, but it really became clear to my why sick people just give up and declare bankruptcy.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Qboyy007
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2009
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 186
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Posted: April 06 2010 at 22:43 |
Easy Money wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Gee, thanks. Always good to see one's country insulted over and over again.Little wonder I barely visit this site anymore.
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What about all the people who claim our country is too inept to run a proper health care program? |
You act as if Government and country are the same thing.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 00:42 |
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C'mon, really, not one guess? 17 days in the hospital for lymphoma surgery is the deal. No one willing to take a wild estimate?
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 00:52 |
jammun wrote:
C'mon, really, not one guess? 17 days in the hospital for lymphoma surgery is the deal. No one willing to take a wild estimate? |
I know it will be a depressing figure. Others may not want to take a wild guess since it is a "normal consequence of free market". Remember, profit is what counts.
I just wish she is well and better. And that one day families don't have to go bankrupt due to illness. Of all the reasons to go bankrupt, health should never be one in a country that spends trillions of dollars a year in wars (for example).
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65266
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 01:33 |
jammun wrote:
C'mon, really, not one guess? 17 days in the hospital for lymphoma surgery is the deal. No one willing to take a wild estimate? |
I'll take a stab: $150,000 ..and I'm guessing that's an underestimation
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 01:34 |
The T wrote:
jammun wrote:
C'mon, really, not one guess? 17 days in the hospital for lymphoma surgery is the deal. No one willing to take a wild estimate? |
I know it will be a depressing figure. Others may not want to take a wild guess since it is a "normal consequence of free market". Remember, profit is what counts.
I just wish she is well and better. And that one day families don't have to go bankrupt due to illness. Of all the reasons to go bankrupt, health should never be one in a country that spends trillions of dollars a year in wars (for example). |
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 01:46 |
The T wrote:
jammun wrote:
C'mon, really, not one guess? 17 days in the hospital for lymphoma surgery is the deal. No one willing to take a wild estimate? |
I know it will be a depressing figure. Others may not want to take a wild guess since it is a "normal consequence of free market". Remember, profit is what counts.
I just wish she is well and better. And that one day families don't have to go bankrupt due to illness. Of all the reasons to go bankrupt, health should never be one in a country that spends trillions of dollars a year in wars (for example). |
Yeah, it may be the normal consequence of that market, in which case that market is broken,
which was sort of how this thread started.
She's well and better, for now, thanks. She's too old -- the woman is 89 yrs or so -- for follow-up radiation and/or chemo, which would probably double the costs and probably kill her. So prognosis is not good in any case. Ethically this is all up for grabs...I'm not going to argue that piece of it. Mother to five, grandmother to many more, great-grandmother to yet more. She's had a good life. So not arguing the ethics of it. That's another thread, another dilemma, as I think I mentioned earlier.
I'm still interested in hearing anyone's guess at the 2-1/2 weeks number, particularly those who don't think some sort of health care reform is in order.
Hint: I guessed $3000 per day x 18 days.
Edited by jammun - April 07 2010 at 01:51
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 06:02 |
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This is a particularly emotive issue and feelings are bound to run high - this is fine, so long as respect is retained between members. Please continue, but keep it civil.
Many thanks
Jim
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 09:13 |
Atavachron wrote:
jammun wrote:
C'mon, really, not one guess? 17 days in the hospital for lymphoma surgery is the deal. No one willing to take a wild estimate? |
I'll take a stab: $150,000 ..and I'm guessing that's an underestimation
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Okay, it was a mere $108K. I'm not sure whether or not that included the out-of-hospital physician costs, which may have been billed seperately.
The point being: this sort of thing could happen to any of us, at any time, really. It might not be lymphoma, but it could be that out of the blue brain tumor that killed that 35 year old guy I worked with (after a year of surgeries, chemo, etc.). It could be that refinery accident that sends some unfortunate person to the burn unit for months. It could be the auto accident that ruptured another of my friend's spleen. Dead at 45.
So if you find yourself in these straits, without insurance, and you get that bill for $100-200K, who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters, or a bankruptcy lawyer?
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 11:35 |
Maybe this community should stick to discussions about music...
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 11:54 |
Negoba wrote:
Maybe this community should stick to discussions about music... |
Naw, we'd just argue about that 
Edited by jammun - April 07 2010 at 12:24
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 07 2010 at 13:10 |
But arguing about Genesis isn't quite as personal as health care...or maybe it is.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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A health care question...
