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Atavachron 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65626
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 Posted: March 29 2010 at 22:04 |
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except, 1: no one has shown that other countries with a national
healthcare system are losing doctors..they may be, but where's the
'Canada's Doctor Shortage' stories? 2: I'd hope that a good majority
of serious med students actually want to become physicians. Sure good money is important (especially with that workload), but isn't
scientific interest & curiosity just as? And 3: If a reduction
in doctor's fees - therefore a reduction in doctor/hospital profits -
were to occur, presumably what we'd lose are those who want to make more $,
which is fine of course. I mean, there's always radiology.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 22:28 |
 Negoba wrote:
Medicare rates for physicians aren't bad.
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I can hear my father spitting out his drink right now.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 22:28 |
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To be honest, in many countries including the one I come from and Germany (where my sister lives) doctors don't become doctors to get rich. For that there's business school. Where's that spirit of wanting to help save lives? Where's the Hippocrates Oath these days? Does it exist in the US? And in any case, if a doctor wants to get rich, there's always plastic surgery and related fields. Doctors should have an excellent standard of living, but they shouldn't enter this profession for the money only. There should be at least one iota of humane interest, too.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 22:29 |
The T wrote:
To be honest, in many countries including the one I come from and Germany (where my sister lives) doctors don't become doctors to get rich. |
And that's fine, the main point being they don't have to absorb an enormous amount of debt before they earn a single dollar (euro, etc.)
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 03:26 |
Negoba wrote:
The problem with physician shortage has as much to do with lifestyle as with pay. My generation grew up with women working and an expectation that a father spending his life distant from the family was an unacceptable way to live. These expectations of what our family life will be is probably the biggest single factor changing the landscape of being a doctor. We won't accept 6 12 hour days plus call. The docs a generation older were told that was the price of being a physician. They didn't have the debt we have, and they didn't have to learn as wide a knowledge base as we do either. By the time my generation is done with residency, they expected to be able to raise their family a bit. All of the time restrictions on residency hours passed after I was done, but not all programs honor those anyway. |
That is very true, and I speak as someone who deals with this issue at home every day. 
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 06:07 |
Atavachron wrote:
except, 1: no one has shown that other countries with a national
healthcare system are losing doctors..they may be, but where's the
'Canada's Doctor Shortage' stories? 2: I'd hope that a good majority
of serious med students actually want to become physicians. Sure good money is important (especially with that workload), but isn't
scientific interest & curiosity just as? And 3: If a reduction
in doctor's fees - therefore a reduction in doctor/hospital profits -
were to occur, presumably what we'd lose are those who want to make more $,
which is fine of course. I mean, there's always radiology.
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Italy has a surplus of doctors rather than a shortage. Young people are discouraged from studying medicine at the university because there will be too many of them to get jobs, at least in the short term.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 06:13 |
^ Isn't there a shortage of nurses in Italy, though? I might remember reading something about this. Also, God bless the shortage of doctors in France, which is the reason why my life improved so much recently 
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 06:16 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
^ Isn't there a shortage of nurses in Italy, though? I might remember reading something about this.
Also, God bless the shortage of doctors in France, which is the reason why my life improved so much recently
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Yes, there is, but this is common to all the Western world. I remember there was a similar situation in Finland when I lived there (over 10 years ago now), and the same is true here. I have relatives in Italy who are in the medical profession, and they told me that nowadays the majority of nurses come from other countries - mainly Romania  now that it is part of the EU.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 09:31 |
 Sorry, couldn't resist this one. "And if all these whining sick people would just die -- they wouldn't need health care!" v v v Thanks.
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 30 2010 at 10:27
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17310
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 09:45 |
Happy Birthday Slarty! 
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 09:46 |
Padraic wrote:
Negoba wrote:
Medicare rates for physicians aren't bad.
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I can hear my father spitting out his drink right now.
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This is telling of how things have changed over the last 20 years. Traditionally, private insurers paid about 60-70% of a bill while Medicare paid 40%. (Medicaid pays about 15% when they get around to paying). A practice with all private insurance obviously would do much better than one taking Medicare and Medicaid. Many private docs refused to take Medicare or Medicaid.
Well things have changed. Private insurers have used Medicare guidelines as a starting point for some time now. Some still reimburse better, but it's not consistent and the margin is not especially high. In addition, with the advent of Managed Care in the 90's, private insurances often have MORE paperwork and BS to deal with than Medicare now. That would have been unheard of 25 years ago, when the morass of paper from Medicare seemed like the end of medicine. Well doctors hadn't seen nuthin yet.
We now live in an age where seeing patients and deciding what they need is relatively easy. Wading through the beaurocracy stinks. And there are people not going into medicine for this reason.
And frankly, at this point, private or public, the BS is all the same, just different flavors. I don't see any kind of health care reform changing that any time soon.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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leifthewarrior
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 03 2008
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 10:40 |
The T wrote:
Nobody has answered why this would be covered in other countries and not in here. Maybe because in the US profits are all that counts? |
Because we're not socialist!!!
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 10:57 |
leifthewarrior wrote:
The T wrote:
Nobody has answered why this would be covered in other countries and not in here. Maybe because in the US profits are all that counts? |
Because we're not socialist!!!
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One of many great quotes from the Princess Bride...
"You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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leifthewarrior
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 03 2008
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 12:36 |
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I think I do know what it means.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 13:41 |
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Then I assume you were joking, because we are a blended socialist country just like every other Western nation. It's just a matter of degree.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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leifthewarrior
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 03 2008
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 14:25 |
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Yes, I was joking! And I agree with you, as much as I don't like it!
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 14:28 |
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Sorry, but there are so many people saying ridiculous things these days it can be hard to tell.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 14:28 |
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Blended socialism - sounds like a good name for a drink
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 14:31 |
Padraic wrote:
Blended socialism - sounds like a good name for a drink
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One that easily leads to alcoholism.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66588
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Posted: March 30 2010 at 14:34 |
Padraic wrote:
Blended socialism - sounds like a good name for a drink
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Sounds like the kind of drink that the bartender would hand to a person sitting down from the bar from you and that person would then pass it down to you. Problem is that each person would be permitted to take an equal drink from it as it is passed down and by the time that it gets to you, you won't be thirsty any more.
Edited by rushfan4 - March 30 2010 at 14:35
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A health care question...
