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The Doctor 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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 Posted: March 28 2010 at 19:32 |
 Epignosis wrote:
I've had a change of heart this weekend.
HEATH CARE FOR NO ONE.
ABORTIONS FOR EVERYONE.
That is all.
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It would stop the population explosion that threatens to ruin the planet. "Be fruitful and multiply" worked when there were 2 people in the world. Now that there are 7 billion (that's 7 followed by 9 zeroes), it may not be such a good idea.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 19:59 |
There's plenty of prime real estate in Antarctica. 
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:03 |
 Always thought that living in Antarctica would  (been wanting to use that emoticon)
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:32 |
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 08:25 |
High quality affordable health care for all should be our goal.
You can make profit doing this, but it is not the most profitable way to provide health care. This is a subtle distinction, but the rest of the world seems to get this where Americans do not. Making a profit is fine as long as the job is getting done. It's just what get prioritized. In America it is typically more difficult to make a profit if the job doesn't get done at all, but usually the most profitable is to cater to the ones who have the disproportionate amount of money. (Hence all the luxury boxes in modern stadiums including the hideous space ship that landed on Soldier Field in Chicago where I vacationed this weekend)
But I digress. It's cool to see us all agree on an ideal.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17310
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 16:01 |
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Jay, I heard some caller on a show saying that perhaps less Docs are going to go into medicine, and some may leave the profession, because the financial reward is getting harder for them to achieve. Her point was that in Britain/France etc, the Docs are given a free or subsidized education and thus can afford to work in the field for less, because they are not carrying 6-figure debt out of medical school like our Docs are. Here in the States, the reward must be excessive because of what Docs must spend to become Docs, and what they must pay back in crushing student debt.
Do you think going toward universal coverage is going to lead to Doc shortages, moreso than we already have in some areas?
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 16:27 |
Finnforest wrote:
Jay, I heard some caller on a show saying that perhaps less Docs are going to go into medicine, and some may leave the profession, because the financial reward is getting harder for them to achieve. Her point was that in Britain/France etc, the Docs are given a free or subsidized education and thus can afford to work in the field for less, because they are not carrying 6-figure debt out of medical school like our Docs are. Here in the States, the reward must be excessive because of what Docs must spend to become Docs, and what they must pay back in crushing student debt.
Do you think going toward universal coverage is going to lead to Doc shortages, moreso than we already have in some areas?
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I've read that there are provisions in the bill that just passed which would help on the education expense side at least, with debt forgiveness for new physicians entering primary care, working in underserved population areas, etc.
This doesn't address the wage question per se, but at least it's a step in the right direction as far as reducing the overall cost burden for those who enter the profession.
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 16:35 |
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"If conservatives get to call universal healthcare 'socialized
medicine,' I get to call private, for-profit healthcare 'soulless,
vampire b*****ds making money off human pain.'" --Bill Maher
"Rush Limbaugh says if the health care bill passes, he will leave the
country. The Democrats are upset, because if they knew that, they would
have passed the bill years ago." --Craig Ferguson
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 29 2010 at 16:37
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 18:02 |
Finnforest wrote:
Jay, I heard some caller on a show saying that perhaps less Docs are going to go into medicine, and some may leave the profession, because the financial reward is getting harder for them to achieve. Her point was that in Britain/France etc, the Docs are given a free or subsidized education and thus can afford to work in the field for less, because they are not carrying 6-figure debt out of medical school like our Docs are. Here in the States, the reward must be excessive because of what Docs must spend to become Docs, and what they must pay back in crushing student debt.
Do you think going toward universal coverage is going to lead to Doc shortages, moreso than we already have in some areas?
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I think universal coverage will lead to US subsidy of medical education and then gradual takeover of the higher education system.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65625
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 19:36 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
"Rush Limbaugh says if the health care bill passes, he will leave the
country. The Democrats are upset, because if they knew that, they would
have passed the bill years ago." --Craig Ferguson
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That's at least two high-profile Cons who've declared this, Glenn Beck too.. but will they actually do it? Of course not, becaaaaauuse : they're spineless, lying pill-poppers who whine like children saying "I'll hold my breath until it stops". The difference is that no one cares if these guys turn blue and pass out. Oh Rush, Glenn, show us what you're made of and friggin leave already. Seriously. Do it. Leave the country that puts up with you, made you rich, and still won't lock you up for crimes against the community and inciting violence against your fellow citizens. Please, for gods sake put up or shut up.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 20:15 |
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Classy post.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65625
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 20:29 |
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Thanks.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 20:30 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Classy post. |
Yours? Not too much... boring I'd say. David's is better...  
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 20:48 |
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UNIVERSAL BEER
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 20:49 |
Padraic wrote:
UNIVERSAL BEER
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Edited by Epignosis - March 29 2010 at 20:50
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65625
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 20:54 |
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'Universal Beer' sounds like a CIA cover
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 20:54 |
Atavachron wrote:
'Universal Beer' sounds like a CIA cover
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i've said too much
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 21:12 |
Finnforest wrote:
Jay, I heard some caller on a show saying that perhaps less Docs are going to go into medicine, and some may leave the profession, because the financial reward is getting harder for them to achieve. Her point was that in Britain/France etc, the Docs are given a free or subsidized education and thus can afford to work in the field for less, because they are not carrying 6-figure debt out of medical school like our Docs are. Here in the States, the reward must be excessive because of what Docs must spend to become Docs, and what they must pay back in crushing student debt.
Do you think going toward universal coverage is going to lead to Doc shortages, moreso than we already have in some areas?
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Primary care in underserved areas has been subsidized for a long time, and the National Health Service Corps Program was extended early in Obama's term quite a while ago. I'm actually waiting to hear back from them any day as my job already qualified and it was just a matter of getting the paper work in. Not my favorite thing to do but it is free money...
I don't think there will be any change in the total number of doctors related to universal health care. But primary care has already been drying up for precisely the reasons you're giving. Managed care and the insurance industry has already put the squeeze on. Because of the simple fact that old people are sicker than the young, all physicians are already dealing with a federally price fixed plan called Medicare.
Medicare rates for physicians aren't bad. They're not great, but a primary care doc would actually do well if all his patients had Medicare. The problem is Medicaid. This is state by state. In Illinois, where a series of megalomaniac insane Governors have bankrupted the place, Medicaid is basically free care for most docs. In Minnesota, things were funded much better. I honestly don't know which one is closer to the norm as I think they're pretty far to each extreme.
The problem with physician shortage has as much to do with lifestyle as with pay. My generation grew up with women working and an expectation that a father spending his life distant from the family was an unacceptable way to live. These expectations of what our family life will be is probably the biggest single factor changing the landscape of being a doctor. We won't accept 6 12 hour days plus call. The docs a generation older were told that was the price of being a physician. They didn't have the debt we have, and they didn't have to learn as wide a knowledge base as we do either. By the time my generation is done with residency, they expected to be able to raise their family a bit. All of the time restrictions on residency hours passed after I was done, but not all programs honor those anyway.
It is possible that Universal Coverage may actually shift the balance closer to the needs of the country, but I actually doubt it will make any difference one way or another.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 21:14 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I think universal coverage will lead to US subsidy of medical education and then gradual takeover of the higher education system. |
I assume this was a joke. Surely you understand government better than this.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17310
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 21:40 |
Interesting. I hope medical professionals are able to earn a *good* living in the future, because they deserve it, and because I believe good pay is essential to quality people. If this woman was right, that doctors she knows are telling their kids not to follow Dad into the profession, that's a sad thing. Thanks for the thoughtful reply Jay. 
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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A health care question...
