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jampa17 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
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 Topic: Help with multitrack recorder
Posted: March 27 2010 at 12:02 |
Hi guys, I'm about to make a good investment in buying a reasonable good quality of multitrack recorder. I really wanted to keep it away from PC software, so I found interesting gadgets that I can buy... so I ask the experts... do any one of you have experience with this kind of technology, is it that user friendly as they say? is it really good quality sound? I'm checking out the 8 track recorder of Tascam and all seems like a good piece of work... here is a pic...
Advises, ideas, anything...? please, feel free to share your experience here... thanks and good luck...
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chopper
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 12:31 |
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I don't have experience of Tascam but I used to use a Fostex X15 4 track and it worked very well. It looks similar to the Tascam in your photo and I reckon it would be fairly good for demo type recording. Whether it's pro standard I couldn't really say.
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Epignosis
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 12:39 |
My first experience with recording was with something like this:
 But that some things to be desired, so after being able to pee in the toilet, and after learning guitar and wanting to record my ideas, I got this:
 Anyway, my experience is that software on a home computer is the way to go. These portable studios are great for getting ideas down and jamming, but when it comes to arranging and adding effects, these things don't do it for me. Plus software gives the added bonus of using the vast array of plugins available on the web.
Edited by Epignosis - March 27 2010 at 12:40
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
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Points: 6802
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 12:56 |
 chopper wrote:
I don't have experience of Tascam but I used to use a Fostex X15 4 track and it worked very well. It looks similar to the Tascam in your photo and I reckon it would be fairly good for demo type recording. Whether it's pro standard I couldn't really say. |
That one is similar and I do check it as well... but only aloud to record 1 track... so is not basically a multitrack... well, yeah, descriptions are similar... thanks dude... the Fostex is easy to edit on the machine?
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Dean
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 14:18 |
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Editing on any Tascam is "tricky" - far easier to do it on a PC where you can display waveforms and tracks of the whole song in one go. You will also probably find the 8-tracks of the Tascam restrictive and will be bouncing-down a lot to free-up spare tracks. I use a Tascam 788 (an ancient version of what you have there), but only used it to multi-track record each instrument before transferring it to PC for proper clean-up and mixing.
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Dean
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 14:19 |
Epignosis wrote:
My first experience with recording was with something like this:
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SaltyJon
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 14:54 |
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
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Points: 6802
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 17:24 |
Dean wrote:
Editing on any Tascam is "tricky" - far easier to do it on a PC where you can display waveforms and tracks of the whole song in one go. You will also probably find the 8-tracks of the Tascam restrictive and will be bouncing-down a lot to free-up spare tracks. I use a Tascam 788 (an ancient version of what you have there), but only used it to multi-track record each instrument before transferring it to PC for proper clean-up and mixing. |
But it can be used as the recorder and then I can edit it on my PC... do you think it worth to do this method Dean? I also see another model that can be used as an interface, and can be controlled from the computer back and forth... the problem is that costs like $200 more... that's why I want to be sure.. thanks also for the interest... 
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Dean
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 18:02 |
jampa17 wrote:
Dean wrote:
Editing on any Tascam is "tricky" - far easier to do it on a PC where you can display waveforms and tracks of the whole song in one go. You will also probably find the 8-tracks of the Tascam restrictive and will be bouncing-down a lot to free-up spare tracks. I use a Tascam 788 (an ancient version of what you have there), but only used it to multi-track record each instrument before transferring it to PC for proper clean-up and mixing. |
But it can be used as the recorder and then I can edit it on my PC... do you think it worth to do this method Dean? I also see another model that can be used as an interface, and can be controlled from the computer back and forth... the problem is that costs like $200 more... that's why I want to be sure.. thanks also for the interest... |
I don't know that specific model and it depends on what you intend to record and why. A quick look on the interweb reveals it can only record two channels at once I would find it a little limiting myself. The 16-bit sampling could be a limitation too (my Tascam 788 is 24-bit). When transfering the tracks to the PC you'll have to manually synchronise them yourself (it can only export .wav files) as it can only transfer one track at a time.
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cobb2
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Posted: March 27 2010 at 20:55 |
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I'm with the others on computer based ie. software recording package. However, to get the most out of this you will need to consider other hardware details, such as mixer, external soundcard. This can add up to quite an outlay (yes, you can record directly in with the sound card already in the computer, but not advisable). So, if money is tight, these standalone units are okay, but limiting in what you can do. At least with these you will be gaining invaluable experience with recording and mixing, just don't expect to be able to mix and master a final dazzling musical product. I dare say that most of us oldies started with these, as they were the only product available for home recording back then, as I am also sure none of us would ever want to go back to them...
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 19:36 |
Thanks guys... you are great... look.. I found this another device... it can record 8 tracks at the same time and can be used as an interface with the computer... and besides it uses Cubase LE4 as software editor... the problem is the cost... almost twice than the other one... but the advantage is the more flexible technology used... now... I want it to make good quality demos (not great, just good) of my band... so... thanks for the ideas... if any knows this model or mark... or give me an inside about demoing rock bands... I all ears... :)
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Dean
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 19:53 |
It depends on how much you already know
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Epignosis
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:02 |
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I've used Zoom processors for guitar, and they are the poorest things I've ever used. I would not recommend their products.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:10 |
Dean wrote:
It depends on how much you already know |
most of my demos are from my keys/guitars direct to the computer and uses Adobe Audition for editing... but that was easy because the drums were made with my keyboards... now that I want to record my bands demos, I need a good tool to record the drums in a decent quality... we already have a good noise isolated room, so, what we need is the tool... I know how to use the computer softwares and is cool, but it take me a lot of time and I really want to produce fast demos... so, that's why I'm prefering to work outside of the PC... the inspiration fall during those long sessions... it helps?
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:16 |
Epignosis wrote:
I've used Zoom processors for guitar, and they are the poorest things I've ever used. I would not recommend their products. |
Oh... ok... thanks... but you really recomend Fisher Price then...?  
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:28 |
jampa17 wrote:
Dean wrote:
It depends on how much you already know |
most of my demos are from my keys/guitars direct to the computer and uses Adobe Audition for editing... but that was easy because the drums were made with my keyboards... now that I want to record my bands demos, I need a good tool to record the drums in a decent quality... we already have a good noise isolated room, so, what we need is the tool... I know how to use the computer softwares and is cool, but it take me a lot of time and I really want to produce fast demos... so, that's why I'm prefering to work outside of the PC... the inspiration fall during those long sessions... it helps? |
The key to recording drums is the mic'ing up of the kit. For the kit in the joke picture above (four toms, double kick, snare and more cymbals than a tibetan monastry) we mic'd each drum seperately and used 2 mics for the overheads (cymbals) - these 9 mics were mixed down to four tracks - kicks, toms, snare and overheads. During the recording the drummer played along to a rhythm guitar guide track for each song (which was recorded against a click-track).
Next we recorded the real rhythm guitar tracks using the drum track as a guide, then the bass, then the keyboards & lead guitar, (and cello, violin and viola) and finally the vocals. The keyboards were direct-injection into the DAW, the vocals used 2 mics (one face-on and one slightly off centre) and we went a little overboard on the guitar recording, using 3 or 4 mics on the speaker cabinet depending on the tone we were looking for. How you go about mic'ing up drums and guitars is well documented on the interweb or in any good book on studio engineering.
All that is a lengthy process for a demo - you can cut corners by recording the rhythm section (drums, bass and rhythm guitar) live (Neurosis do this), but that requires a PA system to mix the sound prior to recording.
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What?
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:35 |
Dean wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
Dean wrote:
It depends on how much you already know |
most of my demos are from my keys/guitars direct to the computer and uses Adobe Audition for editing... but that was easy because the drums were made with my keyboards... now that I want to record my bands demos, I need a good tool to record the drums in a decent quality... we already have a good noise isolated room, so, what we need is the tool... I know how to use the computer softwares and is cool, but it take me a lot of time and I really want to produce fast demos... so, that's why I'm prefering to work outside of the PC... the inspiration fall during those long sessions... it helps? |
The key to recording drums is the mic'ing up of the kit. For the kit in the joke picture above (four toms, double kick, snare and more cymbals than a tibetan monastry) we mic'd each drum seperately and used 2 mics for the overheads (cymbals) - these 9 mics were mixed down to four tracks - kicks, toms, snare and overheads. During the recording the drummer played along to a rhythm guitar guide track for each song (which was recorded against a click-track).
Next we recorded the real rhythm guitar tracks using the drum track as a guide, then the bass, then the keyboards & lead guitar, (and cello, violin and viola) and finally the vocals. The keyboards were direct-injection into the DAW, the vocals used 2 mics (one face-on and one slightly off centre) and we went a little overboard on the guitar recording, using 3 or 4 mics on the speaker cabinet depending on the tone we were looking for. How you go about mic'ing up drums and guitars is well documented on the interweb or in any good book on studio engineering.
All that is a lengthy process for a demo - you can cut corners by recording the rhythm section (drums, bass and rhythm guitar) live (Neurosis do this), but that requires a PA system to mix the sound prior to recording.
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I was planning to mic up with 4 mics the drums, to a mixer and then to the recorder (which I don't know if I'm gonna buy... but I'm thinking of...) you konw... one for bass drum, one for snare- hi-hat, one for toms and one for cymbals... and of course using a guide line that I can build up with my guitar and computer... so, the method I know... we even have recorded in a professional studio, so, we have that experience.... but, the tools we might use for recording is what bothers me... if it's really a good quality or if it has enough space to edit into...
so... on in on... thanks Dean... you have some experience with this kind of gadgets, and you don't like them I see... but as an experience, you really advise it...?
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:44 |
You really cannot beat seeing all the tracks laid out on a PC screen - the LCD display on the Tascam or Zoom is just too small to be useful - of course it can be done, and with a little practice you can get good at it - it's just easier on the PC. And for the final mix it's easier having all the tracks available to you than limiting yourself to a sucessive number of bounce-downs.
I like my Tascam as a multi-track recorder, just not as a mixer/editor/mastering desk.
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What?
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:51 |
Dean wrote:
You really cannot beat seeing all the tracks laid out on a PC screen - the LCD display on the Tascam or Zoom is just too small to be useful - of course it can be done, and with a little practice you can get good at it - it's just easier on the PC. And for the final mix it's easier having all the tracks available to you than limiting yourself to a sucessive number of bounce-downs.
I like my Tascam as a multi-track recorder, just not as a mixer/editor/mastering desk. |
Yeah.. you put it in black and white man... thanks... my original idea was to buy a great computer and a good recorder, to use them both... but doing that is highly expensive... and I have to save to survive my unemployed phase... I guess I'm going to clean out my former PC, try to get the software and only buy the recorder.. so I can use it in rehearsals, but then work with them at the PC... i think it's the better call... but maybe I will plug in more memory to my PC, so it won't fail me down... Thanks Dean... see ya around and I will let you know which decission I made... whatever I'm gonna buy I will do it next week so, I stil have some time to think of... but really, thanks... there were great ideas you gave me there... thanks...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 11:24 |
Hey, guys... I'm about to buy a multitrack recorder but I found this another one from TASCAM, is more powerfull than the one I wanted to buy but I see that is almost the same, just with a few more functions... any ideas about this one in particular...?
it's the Dp-02Cf Recorder... someone can help me with this....? thanks...  |
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Help with multitrack recorder
