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presdoug 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 8615
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 Posted: March 17 2010 at 08:24 |
 uduwudu wrote:
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You mention that Leonard Bernstein used to wind up Emerson. I expect you are aware of the anecdote in Emersons autobiography 'Pictures At An Exhibitionist' when Bernstein was invited into the studio to listen to ELP's then new recording 'Pirates' of which Emerson was justifiably proud of.Bernstein as usual was not impressed. Greg Lake was also there and Bernstein started comparing himself to Beethoven (or some major classical composer) .Not sure of the exact words but Lake chimed in with ''Don't worry Lenny no one is going to confuse your music with Beethoven''. Emerson nearly died on the spot  [/QUOTE] I think I might've read that - quoted somewhere anyway, ELP list? Hilarious, I love things like that!     [/QUOTE] That interaction with Bernstein is a scream-though a very good conductor, Bernstein's own music was just awfull-maybe he had compared his own music to that of Mahler? Now, that would be really hilarious!
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
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Points: 3136
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Posted: March 17 2010 at 08:33 |
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Dave Greenslade is an excellent exponent of the Hammond - His solo on "Drum-folk" (Bedside manners are extra) is one of the finest feel-hammond solos ever...so depressing and so emotive....Emersons need for speed has it's moments but I think Greenslade gets him on the slower stuff....
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: March 17 2010 at 20:10 |
Certif1ed wrote:
The organ had popularity in jazz circles, didn't it?
Jimmy Smith is first to spring to mind, Booker T and the MGs and Wynder K Frogg.
In Blues rock, Graham Bond's ORGANisation surely made some impact - I've seen (albeit rather cheesey) TV clips of them predating 1965.
I know you're not trying to be completist - but these names are big... and I've probably missed loads!
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Yeah I purposefully left out the jazz players, who were more interested in playing music than becoming rock stars. I've often mentioned in these threads that Emerson invented a new sound vocabulary for the Hammond. I suppose I should add Larry Young to that list. His work on McLaughlin's Devotion is second to none.
Certif1ed wrote:
Not forgetting the Doors, of course... and later, Art/Spooky Tooth and Pink Floyd.
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Sheesh, how could I forget Ray Manzarek?! Interesting, though, that the guy who wrote the most memorable organ riff of 1967 was a mere afterthought by 1970. And 40 years later we're still arguing about Emerson.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 8368
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Posted: March 17 2010 at 20:21 |
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The problem with ELP is that their albums are very uneven. They have many five star songs, but there's so much garbage cluttering up the rest of the albums that it's hard to rate any of them five stars. If the second have of Tarkus was half as good as the first, I suspect it would be near the top of the PA charts.
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Keyspoet
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 11 2010
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Points: 42
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 01:12 |
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***** The problem with ELP is that their albums are very uneven. They have
many five star songs, but there's so much garbage cluttering up the rest
of the albums that it's hard to rate any of them five stars. If the
second have of Tarkus was half as good as the first, I suspect it would
be near the top of the PA charts.*****
Actually, I thought that the second half of Tarkus ranked among their most interesting work, from a standpoint of musicianship, though certainly less readily accessible and potentially radio-friendly than the first half.
Once again, they were a band requiring the full attention of their listeners, as theirs certainly was never what could be considered "background music," and those using it as such missed a great deal.
Than again, all of this ranking and de-ranking is purely subjective at best.
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halabalushindigus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2009
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 1438
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 01:26 |
In concert, it was like a one-man show. Like now that Wakeman's gone, I'm the bad ass prog player of keyboard-dome. Then he would let Carl do his thing. But Lake to me was the awesome player. His bass pedals.
Emerson kinda played like wanted to just be overboard. He didn't wear the cape(like Wake) He didn't really dress up(like little rich)but when he played two keyboards at once, with, of course, the second keyboard 180 degrees to the side, I'm thinking wow but WHY? So after a few minutes, It would be the same thing then Emerson would strech his analog sucker with some kind of envelope and trip out. He was fantastic , raw.
It seemed to me that after the years gone by.....Keith does't appear to have, let say. become more incredible.
But that two-handed thing,,,,you got to give it to him. His performance perks are in order
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 28034
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 02:27 |
Keyspoet wrote:
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***** The problem with ELP is that their albums are very uneven. They have many five star songs, but there's so much garbage cluttering up the rest of the albums that it's hard to rate any of them five stars. If the second have of Tarkus was half as good as the first, I suspect it would be near the top of the PA charts.*****
Actually, I thought that the second half of Tarkus ranked among their most interesting work, from a standpoint of musicianship, though certainly less readily accessible and potentially radio-friendly than the first half.
Once again, they were a band requiring the full attention of their listeners, as theirs certainly was never what could be considered "background music," and those using it as such missed a great deal.
Than again, all of this ranking and de-ranking is purely subjective at best.
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Tarkus has always felt like the two halfs of two totally different albums.All the production tricks are in evidence on side one yet side two is raw and almost untreated. I put this down to the band not being sure about how the public and critics would react to the Tarkus suite.They always had the more 'basic' style of side two to fall back on if they needed to. The following albums Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery showed more self assurance as could be expected once these initial concerns were erased.
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esky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Points: 643
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 10:21 |
 What's wrong with ELP (except for the occasional one-off) is that they're no longer together.
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Cactus Choir
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Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
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Points: 1038
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 11:13 |
Certif1ed wrote:
jammun wrote:
Now, guitar still reigns supreme. Clapton, Hendrix, Beck & Page with the Yardbirds. They get the press. They're up there on stage, doin' the moves, playing the music.
Emerson is no idiot. He's a young guy, wants to be a star. He's gotta be thinking, why can't I get the press? He's gotta be thinking, why can't I be the Hendrix of the Hammond organ? Maybe rock my little L3 back and forth, maybe stick knives in the keys, put on a show. He's gotta be thinking, rightly I believe, I'm the finest rock organist out here. Why should I just sit on that bench and play? If Hendrix can light his guitar on fire, if Townshend can smash his to oblivion, well why not reach. Why let them get all the glory? It'll get some press. And lo, it was true.
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There's some fairly persuasive argument from organ trio Clouds' camp that their early incarnation, 1-2-3 (who had residency at the Marquee during 1967) first brought the organ to the forefront, particularly with Billy Ritchie's habit of standing at the organ, and playing both it and the piano at the same time, seamlessly incorporating jazz, and not at all seamlessly incoporating Classical music - and allegory that Emerson only formed The Nice after seeing 1-2-3 perform. Before that, he played in P.P.Arnold's backing band and dreamed the dream.
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Regarding Emerson's formative influences I remember him namechecking a guy called Don Shinn, a now (and probably then) obscure UK organist who I think used to play at The Marquee. Described as a strange sort of Bertie Wooster character, he used to drink whisky from a spoon and would unscrew the back of the organ and mess about with the electronics to get weird sounds, much to the amusement of the crowd. Emerson said even though people were laughing it was obvious he was getting their attention.
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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halabalushindigus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2009
Location: San Diego
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Points: 1438
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 16:42 |
what thehell is up with that cover picture on "Brain Salad Surgery"?. That alone makes me want to stay away as faaaaarrrrrrr away as possible from whatever It is.
never got a full listening of this 'plate' of 'salad'. And I've heard 'round these parts that is ,perhaps, their best. But that album cover
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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jacob s cracker
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 06 2008
Location: Norwich, UK
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Points: 20
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 17:15 |
Well I've been a prog fan since the early 70's and I always favoured bands with guitars in them, or at least non-keyboard focussed bands.
Which means that ELP were always in my 'top of division 2' bands. I love a lot of their stuff but it's mostly the non Emerson-focussed stuff such as Take A Pebble and From The Beginning. ELP did also include utter sh*te like Benny The Bouncer and Are You Ready Eddie as well, (on a low par with Cream's Baby's Lament if you ask me - I mean what was the flippin' point?).
For some that I feel too, but don't really understand, Yes meant a lot more to their fans than ELP. I personally think yes were the most innovative band of that time - melodic, skilled and powerful yet still verey, very subtle, Maybe that helps explain, or maybe just adds fuel to the fire...
Sorry to bang on about Yes when this is an ELP thread but I think they were the top 2 in terms of popularity (Also Pink Floyd, but then they were yet another sub-culture altogether), and Yes won, simple as that after all the debate.
<sits and thinks and waits for backlash>
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I wasn't there when I did it
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
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Points: 2601
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 20:24 |
halabalushindigus wrote:
what thehell is up with that cover picture on "Brain Salad Surgery"?. That alone makes me want to stay away as faaaaarrrrrrr away as possible from whatever It is.
never got a full listening of this 'plate' of 'salad'. And I've heard 'round these parts that is ,perhaps, their best. But that album cover |
The cover is a picture of H R Giger's then girlfriend. . There is supposed to be (and there is on some covers) a white light phallic depiction. ELP were disposed to 'stand up for the penis' (against the censorship) feeling a certain masculine obligation toward defending this aspect of symbolism. The title Brain Salad Surgery is a an. um, oral metaphor for female to male oral sexual gratification. Perhaps oddly I've never heard anyone use for the term this particular activity but then I might move in the socially incorrect circles. Of course being a prog rock fan I don't have social circles but there we go... The girlfriend committed suicide a few years after.  Giger's work is not exactly William Morris (wallpaper) and if you want something is truly foul and might make you more kindly disposed to BSS art then check out the poster for the Dead Kennedy's Fresh Fruit and Rotting Vegetables album. I seriously doubt in this ultra PC age of mind control (Karn Evil 9 come true) that this art will be available. But bear it in mind. Incidentally H R Giger was the guy that did the Aliens in the Aliens movies. BSS is still a great album.
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Dellinger
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 22:11 |
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^ As a matter of fact, originally the name of the album was suposed to be "Whip Some Skull on Ya", which was an euphemism for oral sex. They dropped the name when they explained the name to the executives of the Record Company; the booklet of the album sais that one look at the horrified expressions on the assembled executives faces was sufficient to convince the band that they needed to rethink. So they came up with the name "Brain Salad Surgery", and the executives were a lot happier with this name; only this time they didn't tell them what it meant: according to the lyirics of one Dr. John's album "Right Place Wrong Time" it was also a metaphor for Oral Sex. As a matter of fact, even though the cover is somewhat creepy, I thik it's rather cool and original, I guess that it had much more impact on the LP.
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Dellinger
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 23:05 |
halabalushindigus wrote:
In concert, it was like a one-man show. Like now that Wakeman's gone, I'm the bad ass prog player of keyboard-dome. Then he would let Carl do his thing. But Lake to me was the awesome player. His bass pedals.
Emerson kinda played like wanted to just be overboard. He didn't wear the cape(like Wake) He didn't really dress up(like little rich)but when he played two keyboards at once, with, of course, the second keyboard 180 degrees to the side, I'm thinking wow but WHY? So after a few minutes, It would be the same thing then Emerson would strech his analog sucker with some kind of envelope and trip out. He was fantastic , raw.
It seemed to me that after the years gone by.....Keith does't appear to have, let say. become more incredible.
But that two-handed thing,,,,you got to give it to him. His performance perks are in order |
Well, Wakeman does that thing about playing two keyboards at the same time (I don't think the did the 180 degrees thing, though), and actually is known for having as many keyboards at his reach as he could think of during the concerts. The cape thing began because (before Wakeman started using them, during a Yes show) someone remarked to him that he looked really weird stretching and contorting to reach the different keyboards he intended to use during the different parts of the show; so he decided to use the cape as a distraction (and according to him it worked).
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Dellinger
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Posted: March 18 2010 at 23:12 |
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Oh, and what's all that hatred towards "Are you ready, Eddie", I mean, it's certainly not a stellar track from this band, but as a matter of fact I even like it. Benny the Bouncer and other such tracks I cerainly don't like, but this one is rather fun. Come on, who would think about a "Rock 'n Roll" song done without an electric Guitar at all.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: March 19 2010 at 02:15 |
Dellinger wrote:
Oh, and what's all that hatred towards "Are you ready, Eddie", I mean, it's certainly not a stellar track from this band, but as a matter of fact I even like it. Benny the Bouncer and other such tracks I cerainly don't like, but this one is rather fun. Come on, who would think about a "Rock 'n Roll" song done without an electric Guitar at all. |
Recorded as a tribute to their engineer Eddy Offord after a drunken night out.It is unique that it is the only ELP track with Emerson and Palmer doing backing vocals. Can't imagine why there were'nt more
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halabalushindigus
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Joined: November 05 2009
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Posted: March 19 2010 at 03:02 |
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"still.....you turn me on"
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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halabalushindigus
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Joined: November 05 2009
Location: San Diego
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Posted: March 19 2010 at 03:07 |
Ok. the BSS album cover does look like H.R. And have seen the "Fresh Fruit" Poster when it came out
that stuff seems silly to me now
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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Textbook
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Points: 3281
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Posted: March 19 2010 at 04:23 |
ELP are generally considered the epitome of w**kery- I'm not saying it's true or false, but the perception is out there. I know that out of the giants of prog (Rush, VDGG, Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd. King Crimson etc) they are the only one I heard for the first time and went "that's a bit naff".
I think ELP are a great ideas band but sometimes the execution isn't there. Like if they had written for Yes or King Crimson rather than performed it themselves things might've gone a lot better. I'm not saying they can't play, they certainly can, but something just feels wooden and phoney about a lot of their recordings.
Also, they made Love Beach.
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O666
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Posted: March 19 2010 at 05:51 |
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ELP is one of prog-gods for all time. Keith is unique and his touch is specific. TARKUS is my first meet with ELP and after that i try hard to find another albums. BSS is next album and i search harder. after this 2 album i found ELP ( first album) and TRILOGY togather. In this period i think ELP is the best band i ever know. BUT from next album i found ( Love beach) everything changed. they go bad step by step and i disappointed day after day. WHY? Keith is wild player and he plays like god. Carl is powerful and he has pretty good technic and Greg balanced keith wild and his voice had commercial potential ( like collins). This combination can make magneficence masterpiece but it never happened. Every prog legends have 1 or more masterpiece but ELP dont have ONE 5 STAR ALBUM. One of friends told " they have many 5 star songs". I agree with that but they dont have 5 star album.
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What's wrong with ELP?
