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Gerinski 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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 Posted: March 16 2010 at 00:52 |
I posted the text below in the other "ELP appreciation thread" but allow me to copy it here which is where it belongs. Apologies for the duplication.
It still does not fit into my head that this amazing band has got NOT EVEN ONE album with 5 stars at PA, I find it unbelievable.
When I see for example that Arena's Contagion, or Mike Oldfield's Amarok to name a couple have 5 stars... sure they are good albums and all my respect to Arena and Oldfield, but... that they can be rated higher than ELP debut, Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy, Brain Salad or Welcome Back ??? sorry I still do not get it 
Some people say they would not rate ELPs albums with 5 stars because of Are You Ready Eddy, or of Lucky Man or of Benny the Bouncer... well I think that's very cruel, 'More fool me' is not a masterpiece and 'I know what I like' neither in my opinion, but I still give 5 stars to Selling England by the Pound (as most others do, seen that it's got the 5 star average).
I do not put ELP on the altar as demi-gods or whatever, they made some really weak songs and after Welcome Back they became bland and at times even pathetic, and I'm the first one to say so. But their good music... my god it belongs to the 'creme-de-la-creme' without question!
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 00:58 |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 01:40 |
ELP rocks, and were undeniably the best prog band of the classic era for one plain and simple reason: they said they were.
While I must admit, their best album (Brain Salad (in my opinion)) is not as good as the best of, say, Genesis, Crimso, and that flute playing band I'm so fond of, ELP just had the pure stones to do whatever the crap they felt like, call it art, and put it on an album. They were the KINGS of one-up-man-ship in the business. "How long is your longest track? A side? HA! WE wrote a song that's a side and a half long. And how many cartoon armadillos do your lyrics reference? What? Only two? Ours reference SEVEN. And how many orchestras did you take on tour to cripple your budget? Hmm? What's that? Losersaywhat?" Yeah. Thought so.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 01:53 |
 Epignosis wrote:
Brain Salad Surgery is yay
Trilogy is okay
Tarkus is first
The debut is worst
Pictures at an Exhibition is grand
Almost everything else is bland
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I nominate Epignosis as our Poet Laureate. 
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 02:37 |
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The thing with all the criticisms of punk vs prog are a bit ridiculous. As we are forever being reminded rock is supposed to be young persons' (teen) rebellion music, re write the rules and be new. So in 1967 - 69 rock exploded in crativity and in 1976 - 1977 certain self important wind bags (the hypocrisy is bretataking but the lack of ironic self awareness just plain annoying.) They (media especially) clamped down on on rock. It had to be 3 chords 'n' the truth. While it's easier to review punk and focus on safety pins and not be too worried about time signatures it made for damned boring rock. Punk wasn't that fast, it certainly was not good generally. Funny - a bit.
But the irony. Rock is only supposed to re write the rules but only in a very restrictive format and little or no deviations. Rewrite the rules but only if they have been set out before hand.
Contrivance and pretentious? You can't get that more so with Johnny Rotten and his blasted Sex Pistols. The class dunce rules ok. These people had the nerve to tell people not only what to listen to but to what not listen to. The art rock brigade did not hold a gun to the audience's head; freedom to choose and respect for the individual (KE 9, 2112, Awaken) gave way to punk totalatarianism.
You might think this was a long time ago and is irrelevant. But only a few years ago my Zeppelin T shirt got look of bitter hatred from a SEx Pistols T shirt (wearer obviously.) Or just lok at te tensions arising when at a Cancer Benefit concert by Pplant, Who, Paul Weller (whose band backed, poorly, Jimmy Page)
Be careful of those imposing their views. They are entitled to express - I had no problem with that but when they sneer at ELP etc for being what they are, or for not being what others think they should be we have to be careful.
Oh yes, I recall an interview with someone...Bill Bruford? Not sure but he was at an awards show and spotted Johnny Rotten getting on very well with Phil Collins. The interviewee remarked that sight was "not ... quite right" after all the torture punk exerted.
Fact is The Nice (very important to ELP) then ELP made some of the most innovative non guitar rock and classical music at a time when hindsight was still ahead. They made great albums, displayed a sense of humour (very dangerous) when mosty rock fans seem very serious and especialy with punk rective and reactionary.
ELP developed music. They created and were innovative technically - electronically. They could expand on stated themes and get incredibly intricate and still play with energy. t a great concert band.
This was a very fertile period of rock - only over but the past 10 years has it been allowed to quietly (nothing too overt) grow.
Keith Emerson reformed the Nice, now it's ELP's turn. Maybe a last hurrah but hopefully people will get to hear ELP as they heard Zeppelin at O2. How so many people said they had not heard music like that!
There we have my periodic anti punk post prog rant. ELP made mainly great albums, some lesser moments but maintaining consistent greatness is very difficult in the face of so much (just see P.A.'s Ray Bennett, Flash) interview for what that can really mean.
Bless their artistry.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28064
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 02:39 |
Keyspoet wrote:
Growing up in L.A., my first ELP album was Tarkus, and came by way of a record review club in existence at the time - they sent you two or three albums a month, you sent them your reviews, and they would send you more albums. Most of the albums were unreleased generic presses in plain white cardboard sleeves, some good and some pretty abysmal, but occasionally they would send out a recently released album by a recognized artist, such as Tarkus. Too bad I no longer have most of the albums. ;-)
Both of my parents were pianists, my father specializing in jazz and my mother in classical, and so I was blown away by the album since it had such strong jazz and classical influences. I was already a fan of Greg Lake's voice, probably because of The Court of the Crimson King, and quickly became a huge fan of Keith Emerson, since I am also a synth junkie (another favorite album of the period was Switched on Bach by Walter /Wendy Carlos). And Carl Palmer on drums was a masterstroke - driving, understated, or all out rocking, he ranks among the best.
The problem with ELP in the early 70s is the same as that with Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson's other projects today - the music has so many references, musical and otherwise, that it takes intelligence and effort to really get it fully, and the majority of listeners simply won't bother taking the time. I often find it a rather accurate intelligence test when people "don't get" bands such as ELP, King Crimson or Porcupine Tree, as their comments often betray. Then again, perhaps they simply have yet to really listen intently.
Is the music self-indulgent? Yes, in fact, all great music must be to some extent, as any songwriter who is writing for the fans rather than to please him- or herself has already lost much of the passion needed to really shine. Steven Wilson is a good example of this, as is Mariusz Duda, of the Porcupine Tree - influenced projects Riverside and Lunatic Soul. A songwriter - or any kind of writer, really - has first and foremost to please him- or herself, and only then, after that is accomplished, to try to put it together in such a way as to please the fan base. Otherwise it can only be derivative.
Little indulgences, such as Are You Ready Eddie or Lucky Man, can serve the albums well, rather than detract, if only to serve as a radical change of pace. I, for one, cannot imagine Jethro Tull's brilliant Passion Play absent The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles. And Pictures at an Exhibition was a milestone, up to and including Nutrocker - what's the big deal about letting the band have a little fun? It is their album, after all. ;-)
I am also a Yes fan, but although they put out a number of albums and pieces I absolutely love, I do not consider them to be in the same class musically speaking as ELP. As arguably the first supergroup, ELP really were in a class by themselves, and it is too bad that they weren't able to overcome their differences sufficiently to keep it going. Than again, that is only my wish as a fan, which speaks not at all to their own aspirations, then or now.
I will say that, as uneven as ELP could be, I still consider them to be far superior to Transatlantic, to whom I was recently introduced through a friend. Perhaps I haven't heard their best albums yet, but neither Stolt/Morse/Portnoy/Trewavas nor The Whirlwind have impressed me nearly as much as early ELP. Yes, they are great musicians, and the music is easy to get into, but that is also part of its weakness - there simply doesn't seem to be as much substance here, and some of the heart seems to have gone missing as well. I'll have to hear more of their music before I'm willing to write the band off, as I love Mike Portnoy's drums, and their recent concert video was a blast, but so far I am far less impressed than I expected to be.
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1038
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 03:24 |
uduwudu wrote:
The thing with all the criticisms of punk vs prog are a bit ridiculous. As we are forever being reminded rock is supposed to be young persons' (teen) rebellion music, re write the rules and be new. So in 1967 - 69 rock exploded in crativity and in 1976 - 1977 certain self important wind bags (the hypocrisy is bretataking but the lack of ironic self awareness just plain annoying.) They (media especially) clamped down on on rock. It had to be 3 chords 'n' the truth. While it's easier to review punk and focus on safety pins and not be too worried about time signatures it made for damned boring rock. Punk wasn't that fast, it certainly was not good generally. Funny - a bit.
But the irony. Rock is only supposed to re write the rules but only in a very restrictive format and little or no deviations. Rewrite the rules but only if they have been set out before hand.
Contrivance and pretentious? You can't get that more so with Johnny Rotten and his blasted Sex Pistols. The class dunce rules ok. These people had the nerve to tell people not only what to listen to but to what not listen to. The art rock brigade did not hold a gun to the audience's head; freedom to choose and respect for the individual (KE 9, 2112, Awaken) gave way to punk totalatarianism.
You might think this was a long time ago and is irrelevant. But only a few years ago my Zeppelin T shirt got look of bitter hatred from a SEx Pistols T shirt (wearer obviously.) Or just lok at te tensions arising when at a Cancer Benefit concert by Pplant, Who, Paul Weller (whose band backed, poorly, Jimmy Page)
Be careful of those imposing their views. They are entitled to express - I had no problem with that but when they sneer at ELP etc for being what they are, or for not being what others think they should be we have to be careful.
Oh yes, I recall an interview with someone...Bill Bruford? Not sure but he was at an awards show and spotted Johnny Rotten getting on very well with Phil Collins. The interviewee remarked that sight was "not ... quite right" after all the torture punk exerted.
Fact is The Nice (very important to ELP) then ELP made some of the most innovative non guitar rock and classical music at a time when hindsight was still ahead. They made great albums, displayed a sense of humour (very dangerous) when mosty rock fans seem very serious and especialy with punk rective and reactionary.
ELP developed music. They created and were innovative technically - electronically. They could expand on stated themes and get incredibly intricate and still play with energy. t a great concert band.
This was a very fertile period of rock - only over but the past 10 years has it been allowed to quietly (nothing too overt) grow.
Keith Emerson reformed the Nice, now it's ELP's turn. Maybe a last hurrah but hopefully people will get to hear ELP as they heard Zeppelin at O2. How so many people said they had not heard music like that!
There we have my periodic anti punk post prog rant. ELP made mainly great albums, some lesser moments but maintaining consistent greatness is very difficult in the face of so much (just see P.A.'s Ray Bennett, Flash) interview for what that can really mean.
Bless their artistry.
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I was going to make a long post, but you've pretty much said most of it more eloquently than I could. Just to add that The Stranglers - the most adventurous UK 'punk' band - said that for a movement which was supposed to be about freedom, punk had an awful lot of rules. Needless to say they were not very popular with their peers.
Edited by Cactus Choir - March 16 2010 at 03:25
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 03:31 |
richardh wrote:
Keyspoet wrote:
Is the music self-indulgent? Yes, in fact, all great music must be to some extent, as any songwriter who is writing for the fans rather than to please him- or herself has already lost much of the passion needed to really shine. Steven Wilson is a good example of this, as is Mariusz Duda, of the Porcupine Tree - influenced projects Riverside and Lunatic Soul. A songwriter - or any kind of writer, really - has first and foremost to please him- or herself, and only then, after that is accomplished, to try to put it together in such a way as to please the fan base. Otherwise it can only be derivative.
Little indulgences, such as Are You Ready Eddie or Lucky Man, can serve the albums well, rather than detract, if only to serve as a radical change of pace. I, for one, cannot imagine Jethro Tull's brilliant Passion Play absent The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles. And Pictures at an Exhibition was a milestone, up to and including Nutrocker - what's the big deal about letting the band have a little fun? It is their album, after all. ;-)
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, fun. A bit like with Zappa Mother's 1971 Fillmore East album. The build up and release with the fun performance of Happy Togther was superb timing. Fun, amongst all that serious comedy (sic.) Good album to go with mildly intoxicating refreshments (IMHO!) I thought Nut rocker was one of those perfect moments. The virtuosity is there but te context changed. After the serious Pictures comes a superbly played bit of fun with a certain sense of self irony. And ELP were a 1995 warm up act for Tull. So there's nothing wrong with self indulgence, etc, it's just that certain media types imply there is something suspect.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 03:43 |
uduwudu wrote:
the hypocrisy is bretataking but the lack of ironic self awareness just plain annoying.
Contrivance and pretentious? You can't get that more so with Johnny Rotten and his blasted Sex Pistols. The class dunce rules ok. These people had the nerve to tell people not only what to listen to but to what not listen to. The art rock brigade did not hold a gun to the audience's head; freedom to choose and respect for the individual (KE 9, 2112, Awaken) gave way to punk totalatarianism.
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Hmm... many punks also did not really "get" what McClaren, Lydon & Co were trying to do either.
Lydon/Pistols was no more contrived than any other band - that was one of the points. At least the Sex PIstols actually told people exactly what they were doing - "The Great Rock and Roll Swindle" is testament to this, as it jeers the Record companies that the Pistols ripped off (the same record companies that have rippied off so many artists over the generations - I think the Pistols deserve applause for their success here).
They made the rules while preaching anarchy - ie, the point should have been NOT to follow the rules but to do your own thing, but most punks were, as you put it, "class dunces" (Rotten/Lydon was an Art College dropout - not a dunce, as the dunce wouldn't have made it into college in the first place. On the contrary, Lydon can be scarily clever).
This aggressive blast of punk was what the music industry needed, though - it made it wake up and get into the 20th Century at long last - bands became more energetic, less likely to put up with rubbish from record companies, and more keen to do their own thing rather than follow the formulaic pattern - ironically, following in the shadow of the Prog Greats.
The Stranglers are an excellent example - although the Stranglers were worse than The Pistols when it came to pretending to being something they weren't.
They were so far away from being dumb punks it's not funny - but they behaved like them.
Then they released astonishing albums like "The Raven" and "Aural Sculpture".
The Sex PIstols can be seen as real artists (and I understand that some of the original members played previously in Prog or Prog-related bands or as session musicians - can't remember which). Lydon was famous as being a Hammill fan, and probably did not, as his T-Shirt boldly proclaimed, hate Pink Floyd. It was all part of the image - you had to "be there".
They weren't top-notch musicians, but were no slouches either, until Sid Vicious got signed up and things got out of hand.
The Pistols lied to everybody about everything - that was one of the core ideas of the band - to spread anarchy and chaos - and they did.
Much like ELP did in their music... (and I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way  ). |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 03:44 |
richardh wrote:
I will say that, as uneven as ELP could be, I still consider them to be far superior to Transatlantic, to whom I was recently introduced through a friend. Perhaps I haven't heard their best albums yet, but neither Stolt/Morse/Portnoy/Trewavas nor The Whirlwind have impressed me nearly as much as early ELP. Yes, they are great musicians, and the music is easy to get into, but that is also part of its weakness - there simply doesn't seem to be as much substance here, and some of the heart seems to have gone missing as well. I'll have to hear more of their music before I'm willing to write the band off, as I love Mike Portnoy's drums, and their recent concert video was a blast, but so far I am far less impressed than I expected to be.
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Er. thats just your opinion....Transatlantic, three studio productions all showcasing breathtaking virtuosity! the year 2009 - and they produce a SEVENTY EIGHT minute epic (and thats trumping even ELP) - Morse's dodgy religious lyrics only slightly detract from a marvellously crafted progressive rock symphony. When I listened to it for the first spin, several times the hairs on the back of my neck stood up as the music took my brain into "prog space"....You selected an unfortunate band to compare ELP with I think  |
Er. thats just your opinion....Transatlantic, three studio productions all showcasing breathtaking virtuosity! the year 2009 - and they produce a SEVENTY EIGHT minute epic (and thats trumping even ELP) - Morse's dodgy religious lyrics only slightly detract from a marvellously crafted progressive rock symphony. When I listened to it for the first spin, several times the hairs on the back of my neck stood up as the music took my brain into "prog space"....You selected an unfortunate band to compare ELP with I think
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 04:30 |
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Just 'cause Pictures was a live album I think it counts. It's not as though it was previously released material. Well, not by ELP and Greg Lake did add lyrics, serious stuff to serious music appropriately countered with Nutrocker.
ELP ****(*?)
PicturesAt An Exhinbition ****(*?)
Tarkus ****(*?)
Trilogy ****
Brain Salad Surgery *****
Incidentally something I have always wanted to know, hope someone has an idea.
Deceased Music jock John Peel (normally so right) once described ELP as a waste of talent and electricity. Now he did have The Nice on his radio shows but I don't think ELP did BBC sessions. Not heard of any anyway. He once cold shouldered Ian Gillan, once Deep Purple found fame and fortune as,accordingt to Gillan, that any band that didn't need Peel type shows (anymore) were off his radar and were now irrelevant sell outs - or words to that effect. I wonder if this prejudice influenced his influential opinions on the easily influenced?
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 05:08 |
There was talk that ELP would become ELP&H (Hendrix) at one time - Now that would have been pretty amazing.
It is sad that a band who released Brain Salad Surgery is not more highly regarded as BSS was an absolute classic in its time. 5 stars in my book any day.
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 05:13 |
They weren't top-notch musicians, but were no slouches either, until Sid Vicious got signed up and things got out of hand.
The Pistols lied to everybody about everything - that was one of the core ideas of the band - to spread anarchy and chaos - and they did.
Much like ELP did in their music... (and I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way ). [/QUOTE] This underlines my point. How retrograde is sacking your bass player, getting someone more "glamorous" aboard unable to play the riff to God Save The Queen - which totally irellevantly I liked and still do. The Jubilee Year prank was hilarious. The media stictched up that Number 1 in 77 by retending Rod Stewart was the Top of the Pops. Still 3 chords and the Truth, er, lies! Anarchy and chaos? They weren't allowed to play anywhere. Venues were closed. And it was only fashion that had the media helping spread the lies. All of this is fine and entertaining enough. I like a good laugh even though I'm into prog rock - or is it especially? But it was this punk / media insistence that I cannot and should not listen to these musicians who are oh, 25 - 30 year old dinosaurs. This permeate4d for years after. What's more punk nearly killed the music industry. They ruined the UK's otherwise fine name in rock exports to the US and it took Zeppelin and Floyd to rescue sales in 1979 / 1980. Oddly we now have more anarchy and chaos with piracy (to slowly and loosely return to the topic.., Pirates that is.) Hope my typos are gone. My PC screen seems to be doing odd things on PA's site at the moment. The only thing wrong with ELP is that sometimes they produced material that one may feel could have been better. Same as just about anybody. Unlike just about anybody they have a clutch of classics. cheers 'n' beers
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1038
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 05:18 |
uduwudu wrote:
Deceased Music jock John Peel (normally so right) once described ELP as a waste of talent and electricity. Now he did have The Nice on his radio shows but I don't think ELP did BBC sessions. Not heard of any anyway. He once cold shouldered Ian Gillan, once Deep Purple found fame and fortune as,accordingt to Gillan, that any band that didn't need Peel type shows (anymore) were off his radar and were now irrelevant sell outs - or words to that effect. I wonder if this prejudice influenced his influential opinions on the easily influenced?
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He was a major figure in UK music but Peel was a queer bird. He also cold shouldered Jethro Tull, literally crossing the road to avoid them after they started getting some success. This after coming out with the statement "The Underground is like a woman that is endlessly pregnant but never has a baby. So sad" I saw a programme about the box of his favourite 50 singles that Peel carried around with him and Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack by the Nice was in there(!) He was a major champion of the group, but again when the mainstream beckoned he turned against them (or at least Emerson).
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 05:22 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
There was talk that ELP would become ELP&H (Hendrix) at one time - Now that would have been pretty amazing.
It is sad that a band who released Brain Salad Surgery is not more highly regarded as BSS was an absolute classic in its time. 5 stars in my book any day. |
Yes, that was before Carl Palmer was in ELP. Mitch Mitchell was supposed to be thr drummer. So it might have been HELM than HELP. I think it was an Enerson interview hwere he said the Hendrix crowd scared he and Lake to death.  Hendrix and Emerson. Now there's a scary thought.  
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 05:42 |
Cactus Choir wrote:
uduwudu wrote:
Deceased Music jock John Peel (normally so right) once described ELP as a waste of talent and electricity. Now he did have The Nice on his radio shows but I don't think ELP did BBC sessions. Not heard of any anyway. He once cold shouldered Ian Gillan, once Deep Purple found fame and fortune as,accordingt to Gillan, that any band that didn't need Peel type shows (anymore) were off his radar and were now irrelevant sell outs - or words to that effect. I wonder if this prejudice influenced his influential opinions on the easily influenced?
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He was a major figure in UK music but Peel was a queer bird. He also cold shouldered Jethro Tull, literally crossing the road to avoid them after they started getting some success. This after coming out with the statement "The Underground is like a woman that is endlessly pregnant but never has a baby. So sad"
I saw a programme about the box of his favourite 50 singles that Peel carried around with him and Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack by the Nice was in there(!) He was a major champion of the group, but again when the mainstream beckoned he turned against them (or at least Emerson).
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That was it. Ian Anderson, not Gillan. Got my Ians crossed. His (Peel's) attitude was odd. Must've have given Johnny Rotten his "I hate PF" T shirt after TDSOTM. Now there's a sell out for ya. In his terms anyway. Perhaps if every act turned up it's toes after being on his show then things would appear different. Clearly the publicity of quality music and the concomitant benefits was bad thing. So if a band is successful on it's own artistic merits (Pink Floyd, Tull) that is bad, then being a dismal failure (commercially) is great. He still failed to give a basis of reasoning. ie why he thought ELP were so inferior rather than that he did think so. And in his position it is his responsibility to back his opinion with some reason. This is adult rock, prog rock after all, not teenybopper land. Well, for the most part.
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1038
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 06:06 |
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The only reason I ever heard him give for not liking ELP was that he went to one of their concerts and thought it was "b*llocks" (shucks these DJs are so articulate). He also seemed particularly put out that the audience was full of "middle class t*ssers" (surely The Nice's was as well?). Might have been a bit of self-loathing there as he was resolutely middle class himself of course (ex-Public school) despite his obscurely acquired working class scouse accent.
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 06:21 |
Cactus Choir wrote:
The only reason I ever heard him give for not liking ELP was that he went to one of their concerts and thought it was "b*llocks" (shucks these DJs are so articulate). He also seemed particularly put out that the audience was full of "middle class t*ssers" (surely The Nice's was as well?). Might have been a bit of self-loathing there as he was resolutely middle class himself of course (ex-Public school) despite his obscurely acquired working class scouse accent.
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As much as I did like John Peel when I was a teenager, he was just another public school educated BBC bod, who desparately wanted the kids to like him. He was actually a big fan of Floyd, before they started selling too many records. He liked Tull too, prior to them progging up.
He seemed to live by the ethos that music was not valied, unless the artist had been raised in a sewer, and had dung for breakfast everyday. Peel should have taken note of the large numbers of 'middle class t**sers' attending Clash and Undertones gigs. Indeed, he should have taken note of the very comfortable backgrounds, the likes of Joe Strummer, J.Rotten and Pete Shelley had emerged from.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1038
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 06:56 |
Blacksword wrote:
Peel should have taken note of the large numbers of 'middle class t**sers' attending Clash and Undertones gigs. Indeed, he should have taken note of the very comfortable backgrounds, the likes of Joe Strummer, J.Rotten and Pete Shelley had emerged from.
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Agree with that. It's irritating when Punk vs Prog is portrayed as some kind of class war struggle as this is a ridiculous simplification. Punk no more came from "the street" than prog did. In prog terms some like Peter Hammill and Genesis were from comfortable backgrounds but Wakeman was London working class, Jon Anderson was a former lorry driver from Accrington and Greg Lake by his own admission "didn't have a pot to p*ss in" when growing up in Dorset.
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: March 16 2010 at 08:27 |
Wakeman was middle class! - he had Piano lessons. The Likes of Peel and Anthony H. Wilson were both Oxford/Cambridge Graduates who wanted to appear cool (thus their affiliation with the new-wave in 1976/77) - Wilson claimed to have been at THAT gig at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester (I suspect that was a porky-pie). Appearently, when alone and relaxing, Wilson used to listen to mainstream Classical music....Music was just for money-making and his public image......
The same probably goes for Peel....
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