What's wrong with ELP?

chopper wrote: richardh wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: Gerinski wrote: Progologue wrote: The debut is very good, Tarkus is similarly good, Trilogy fairly good. But I think they became pretty cheesy after that.  All opinions are welcome and respected, but let me tell you: you're the first person I've known about to call Brain Salad Surgery 'Cheesy' !!! "Man of stone born alone ties a rope around a tree and hangs the universe" "Ever day a little sadder a little madder somebody get me a letter" "LOAD YOUR YOUR PROGRAM I AM YOURSELF" If you like the music, fine (I don't anymore), but those lyrics are just dreadful.   Someone get me a ladder (not a'' letter''). This was partly an injoke as they did a tour entitled something like 'Take A Ladder'  prior to recording BSS.   You quote other lyrics from KE9 that were co written with Pete Sinfield. Lake admittedly was very poor at writing sci -fi lyrics as it was an area in which he had little interest.   I am slightly annoyed that people are suggesting that Greg Lake couldn't write decent lyrics. The whole Trilogy album stands up very well lyrically. He was good at painting interesting images and could structure the lyrics well. Of course he was no Roger Waters or Tony Banks but he was far away from being a bad lyricist.Check out From The Beginning at least. Beautifull song. Also Lucky Man which he wrote as a teenager.Good stuff imo. Lucky Man? Why was he lucky? - he got shot!

ELP  = Elephants Love Penis.

or something like that

For me personally, I dont rate ELP very highly for the following simple reasons:

Lack of guitar, inadequately compensated for by the other instruments.

Keyboards limited mainly to Hammond and Piano, and some occassional Moog, leading to a predictable, limited and formulaic approach to writing songs.

They massacre classical music in a way which should be punishable in law!

Albums inconsistent in quality. One or two good songs, and a lot of guff.


Yes, they are one of the great prog bands in terms of their influence, they're stature, and musicianship, but for my personal taste they just dont cut it. I thought their most consistent album was the debut. Depsite my feelings for what they did afterwards, the debut actually ranks as one of my favourite debut albums of all time. How they went from writing those songs to writing 'The only way' 'Benny the bouncer' and all that other bilge, I'll never know. It also puzzles me why the producer on Tarkus didn't stop the tape and insist Greg Lake sung in tune on 'The only way' He sounds like a drunk who's staggered into a midnight mass on Christmas Eve, and started wailing about the non existence of God.

Karn Evil 9 - First Impression only - an absolute STONKER of a track.

What's wrong with ELP?  They are out there

Tursake wrote:   I can't imagine myself listening to the original of version of The Nutcracker, Nutrocker is way better

himtroy wrote: I place Pictures at An Exhibition, Self Titled, and Tarkus (Song not album) pretty high up, the rest I don't really care for except a song or two off of Trilogy. And if we're going to bring up Egg....Egg at their worst is better than ELP at their best.  Except Egg was far too consistent to have a worst.

Growing up in L.A., my first ELP album was Tarkus, and came by way of a record review club in existence at the time - they sent you two or three albums a month, you sent them your reviews, and they would send you more albums.  Most of the albums were unreleased generic presses in plain white cardboard sleeves, some good and some pretty abysmal, but occasionally they would send out a recently released album by a recognized artist, such as Tarkus.  Too bad I no longer have most of the albums.  ;-)

Both of my parents were pianists, my father specializing in jazz and my mother in classical, and so I was blown away by the album since it had such strong jazz and classical influences.  I was already a fan of Greg Lake's voice, probably because of The Court of the Crimson King, and quickly became a huge fan of Keith Emerson, since I am also a synth junkie (another favorite album of the period was Switched on Bach by Walter /Wendy Carlos).  And Carl Palmer on drums was a masterstroke - driving, understated, or all out rocking, he ranks among the best.

The problem with ELP in the early 70s is the same as that with Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson's other projects today - the music has so many references, musical and otherwise, that it takes intelligence and effort to really get it fully, and the majority of listeners simply won't bother taking the time.  I often find it a rather accurate intelligence test when people "don't get" bands such as ELP, King Crimson or Porcupine Tree, as their comments often betray.  Then again, perhaps they simply have yet to really listen intently.

Is the music self-indulgent?  Yes, in fact, all great music must be to some extent, as any songwriter who is writing for the fans rather than to please him- or herself has already lost much of the passion needed to really shine.  Steven Wilson is a good example of this, as is Mariusz Duda, of the Porcupine Tree - influenced projects Riverside and Lunatic Soul.  A songwriter - or any kind of writer, really - has first and foremost to please him- or herself, and only then, after that is accomplished, to try to put it together in such a way as to please the fan base.  Otherwise it can only be derivative.

Little indulgences, such as Are You Ready Eddie or Lucky Man, can serve the albums well, rather than detract, if only to serve as a radical change of pace.  I, for one, cannot imagine Jethro Tull's brilliant Passion Play absent The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles.  And Pictures at an Exhibition was a milestone, up to and including Nutrocker - what's the big deal about letting the band have a little fun?  It is their album, after all.  ;-) 

I am also a Yes fan, but although they put out a number of albums and pieces I absolutely love, I do not consider them to be in the same class musically speaking as ELP.  As arguably the first supergroup, ELP really were in a class by themselves, and it is too bad that they weren't able to overcome their differences sufficiently to keep it going.  Than again, that is only my wish as a fan, which speaks not at all to their own aspirations, then or now.

I will say that, as uneven as ELP could be, I still consider them to be far superior to Transatlantic, to whom I was recently introduced through a friend.  Perhaps I haven't heard their best albums yet, but neither Stolt/Morse/Portnoy/Trewavas nor The Whirlwind have impressed me nearly as much as early ELP.  Yes, they are great musicians, and the music is easy to get into, but that is also part of its weakness - there simply doesn't seem to be as much substance here, and some of the heart seems to have gone missing as well.  I'll have to hear more of their music before I'm willing to write the band off, as I love Mike Portnoy's drums, and their recent concert video was a blast, but so far I am far less impressed than I expected to be. 

Petrovsk Mizinski wrote: ELP  = Elephants Love Penis. or something like that

Certif1ed wrote: Tursake wrote:   I can't imagine myself listening to the original of version of The Nutcracker, Nutrocker is way better    "Nutrocker" was originally by B Bumble and the Stingers in 1962, wasn't it?

Correct - Kim Fowley plays Tchaickovsky and manages a respectable draw.