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    Posted: March 13 2010 at 22:11
I am tired of all those threads dedicated to discuss why do people hate, dislike, etc... this classic band and first prog super-group.

So now this thread is dedicated to the appreciation of the music of this amazing trio!

I grew up listening to ELP's music and is one of my top 5 favorite prog bands (together with KC, Yes, Renaissance and Genesis) and although that list changes frequently ELP has been a permanent member since I was 3 years old...

It is true that they are pompous, pretentious, etc.....

Prog itself is pretentious and all those things, what is more pretentious that trying to progress beyond the already existent music establishment and develop a new style pretended to be virtuous?

I think that ELP embodies everything that progressive rock stands for and takes it to the extreme (maybe that is why many people dislike it)...

For me its pretentiousness, pompousness, virtuosity, etc. are some of the elements that make prog and ELP interesting and keep me constantly on the edge of my seat although I've listened to the exact same piece thousands of times....

Edited by ProgressiveAttic - March 13 2010 at 22:12
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Nice idea for a thread (speaking as an ELP fan of long standing) but you don't need me to remind you that the Atheist -Agnostic Thread contained nothing but the scandalized posts of disgruntled Christians Confused
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I've been a fan since 1977. Remember first hearing Hoedown on the radio and that pricked my interest.Then I saw a bit of them on TV with Emerson rocking the organ on its corners ..wtf?? Soon after they released Fanfare For The Common Man which gained tons of airplay on UK radio.Loved the video of them playing in the Montreal Olympic Stadium. They were so aloof!
 
The pretentious thing has long been used as a big stick to bash them with.They certainly were no shrinking violets and most certainly didn't underplay anything.If it could be made bigger,louder,faster they did it.ELP provided a full on live experience ,very theatrical but never dull.
 
Album wise they made several important albums although their enthusiasm started to drift after the Works Volume One album in 1977.It will always be debatable as to whether peices like Karn Evil 9 and Tarkus are just pseudo intellectual clap trap but I love these tracks for Carl Palmers amazing technical prowess and Keith Emersons command of all things keyboard.Must not forget Greg Lake who provides the all important glue that keeps it alltogether.
 
ELP much to their credit never played it safe.They always looked for new ideas and ways of doing things.They pushed the envelope in both the live arena and the studio.Once they had done everything they could with the synths they turned their attention to the orchestra.Perhaps this proved to be their down fall.Even die hard fans had their reservations .The music perhaps had less intensity although their skills still shone through on Pirates and Fanfare For The Common Man. Towards the late seventies it started to fall apart with the flak coming from the trendy Punk new wavers who in truth had little clue how to play to that level.What you don't understand you destroy.Ah well.
 
 
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People who don't like ELP says it's too bombastic and technical! For me, those caracteristics are not bad in itself. I really think the classical influence in their music make it difficult to be appreciate by a large fans base. I really enjoy the ELP sounds especially for the keyboards of Keith Emerson, but also the great rhythm section with Carl Palmer. They made great albums, but it has gone downhill at the end of their career. The 4 first albums are definitely a must have in a progressive rock collection. After that they're some good songs scatter on every albums. 
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I appreciate them :)
Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 07:53
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

People who don't like ELP says it's too bombastic and technical! For me, those caracteristics are not bad in itself. I really think the classical influence in their music make it difficult to be appreciate by a large fans base. I really enjoy the ELP sounds especially for the keyboards of Keith Emerson, but also the great rhythm section with Carl Palmer. They made great albums, but it has gone downhill at the end of their career. The 4 first albums are definitely a must have in a progressive rock collection. After that they're some good songs scatter on every albums. 


Yes, it's especially funny when that criticism comes from Dream Theater fansWink. Well, I suppose love is blindLOL...
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Clap

have posted this before (with permission LOL) and this is a good place to post it again.  One of the more insightful things I've seen written about ELP.  From John McFerrin's excellent review site...
Emerson Lake And Palmer

LOAD YOUR BROWSER. I AM PRETENTIOUS.



Emerson, Lake and Palmer are quite possibly the world's most reviled band. Now, they were extremely popular in the early 70's among those who 'took themselves seriously' (especially college students), and even today they maintain a sizable cult following, so it would be unfair to say that absolutely nobody likes them. Regardless, however, this is a perfectly legitimate statement on the general level. Fans of punk have always detested them as they would any prog band, but this extended far beyond normal levels of loathing; as an example, one of the staples of late 70's Sex Pistols shows was to burn life-size statues of Keith Emerson in effigy.

Now, this normally wouldn't be such a bad thing, since after all hatred of art-rock and prog-rock was one of the most important principles upon which the punk movement was founded. No, what distinguished ELP was the amount of venom spewed upon them by other "high-brow" artists and their various followers. Fans of classical music absolutely despised them for "butchering" various well-known pieces in their attempts to interpret these standards in a rock idiom. There is a nugget of truth to this, of course (Pictures at an Exhibition is often quite a stretch from the original Mussorgsky piece, to put it mildly), but ... I dunno. I'm sure that a good number of the band's fans became fans of classical music due to their efforts, so that should be worth something. Or maybe the older generation was just mad about all these young whippersnappers infiltrating their societal niche ....

(AUTHOR'S NOTE): While I still agree with the core content of what I write in the next few paragraphs, it's expressed far more clumsily than I'd have preferred, and in a perfect world I would rewrite this section completely. Unfortunately, there are a few reader comments that directly reference it, and I don't want to make them anachronistic, so it's staying. Even if I'd rather it didn't. Just remember that I wrote this when I was 19, and that I'm way older than that now.

The greatest insult of all, of course, is that even among some prog lovers, they're hated like crazy! Now, prog is often considered a relatively open-ended term, and many are eager to classify any band with the least bit of 'artsy' leanings as one (on the other hand, the definition held by many often excludes those should be considered prog; if Can isn't at least somewhat of a prog band, then I don't know anything about anything). Hence, many groups are GROSSLY misclassified in this genre. Styx, Journey, Kansas ... all are talentless (well, ok, they're talented at their instruments, so if you want, let's say tasteless instead) buffoons with large egos but little else, and let's face it, you really need compositional talent to be a decent prog group (Kansas and Styx are basically prog groups, but they're so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that they can and should be ignored). The Moody Blues and Procol Harum often get the tag, but that's only because of the slight symphonic elements in their sound (from mellotron in the former, organs in the latter); both are most definitely rooted in pop, and it should definitely be noted that the former's concepts are never as overwhelmingly bizarre as one would expect from a true prog band (not to mention that the chord progressions are never in the least bit intimidating). Jethro Tull ... well, Jethro Tull was a prog band for the bulk of the 70's, sure, but with a couple of MAJOR exceptions, their progressive stuff was extremely second-rate; I vastly prefer to think of Tull in terms of Teacher and the like as opposed to garbage like Minstrel in the Gallery. And finally, it is highly tempting to refer to Pink Floyd as progressive, but ... avant-garde yes. Artsy, yes. "Pretentious," yes. But the lyrics are, again, always either psychedelic, folk, pop, or hyper-angsty. They weren't really prog outside of Meddle and Animals, if you ask me. Anyway, the whole point of this is that among English speaking groups (I'm not even going to try and fake any knowledge about German prog or anything like that), there are really five widely acknowledged "classic" prog groups (and yes, I'm aware of the existence of Gentle Giant and Van Der Graff (Generator), but I'm speaking of widely acknowledged groups, groups that a casual rock fan who may know vaguely enough about prog to have made some level of judgement will recognize): Yes, ELP, Rush (though that's debatable), Genesis (the Gabriel-era stuff plus Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering, that is), and first-period King Crimson (later incarnations of King Crimson were most certainly prog, but not in the "classic" definition of the word, nor did they strive to be after the initial incarnation). And almost universally, ELP is considered the worst of all of these.

Now, for many, a sufficient explanation of this is simply, "ELP sucks!". Needless to say, I think that is a grave mistake (myself, I would rate them third on the list, behind Yes and Genesis - note, however, that I now consider King Crimson's whole career on par with those bands, even if the initial incarnation only has two albums worth caring about), but I think I can make a good estimation on the real reasons people despise this band. The first, and the most obvious, was the group's relatively heavy emphasis on classical music in their sound. Yes, progressive rock almost always has at least a tinge of some classical elements, but ELP's music had the greatest concentration of it in their music, BY FAR. Now, it's not as if that was the only type of music they did, not at all, but among their discography you can find covers of Copeland, Holst, Bartok, and they even did a full album rendition of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. Their self-penned material would also sometimes have a pure 'orchestral' feel as well, and they even managed to create a new and totally bizarre genre, the 'rock-symphony.'

The band's classical leanings, however, are not the only significant difference between ELP and the others on the list. A key thing to note about ELP is that, besides King Crimson, none of the others on the list were prog-groups from the get-go. Yes started as a jazzy, psychedelic rock band, and it wasn't until their third LP that they really became Yes as we know them. Rush began as a hard-rock garage band, modeling themselves after Led Zeppelin and Cream. And Genesis, well, Genesis started as a bunch of teenagers trying to sell pop songs to the public and not succeeding one iota (which is a shame, seeing as there are tons of great melodies on their debut). ELP, however, was "pretentious" and progressive from the very beginning, which makes sense. Both Keith Emerson (The Nice) and Greg Lake (King Crimson) were former key members of groups that had pretty much created the genre, and as such one could only expect them to continue what they seemed to have a knack for. Add in Carl Palmer's technically perfect drumming, and you have a group created for pretentiousness and lots of it.

There is one more aspect that sets ELP apart from the other groups, and that deals with the center of the band's sound. Rush focused on the blistering chops of their guitar and bass players. Yes, regardless of Wakeman's presence, rotated around their amazing bassist, Chris Squire. Genesis tried to emphasize Peter Gabriel's vocals and his bizarre fantasies over the chops of the group, which were definitely fine overall but hardly in the super-elite level of the rock world. In the Court of the Crimson King, regardless of all of the mellotrons, was extremely guitar heavy, not to mention the saxophones and other reed instruments. ELP, however, did not revolve around a guitar or bass player like the others. ELP was always centered on the keyboards of Keith Emerson. Now, it's not that he was a bad player, FAR from it. It's just that, well, he could be a bit too showoffy. Plus the fact that he often employed some extremely bizarre and occasionally annoying synth tones that few others would even touch. And since most people would rather hear guitar w**king than synth w**king, it's only natural that there would be a huge turn-away from this group.

I think I have made it sufficiently clear that ELP is not for everyone. The thing is, for the longest time I refused to give them even the slightest chance, and that's a shame, because they're really quite good! For starters, each of them was a highly talented and extremely professional musician, and even haters of the band have to give them that. Keith Emerson, let's face it, was almost indisputably the greatest keyboardist on earth, hands down (I think he was officially given the title by some renowned magazine twenty five times in a period of thirty years). Hence, he was often able to make large parts of the group's compositions come alive by the sheer force of his talent alone, whereas in the hands of any lesser player it might have been deadly boring. Meanwhile, just as important for the group was vocalist/guitarist/bassist Greg Lake. With the exception of Justin Hayward and a few others, almost nobody was a better rock singer than him in the 70's. He was always able to add incredible power and powerful emotional content to the highly abstract and bizarre lyrics that always accompanied the group's music. And one should certainly not minimize his guitar and bass playing, not at all. And finally, there was drummer Carl Palmer, as fine a prog drummer as one could find in the world; with an impeccably fluid and solid playing technique, his playing abilities in the prog universe were surpassed only by Bill Bruford himself.

The fact remains, however, that impeccable instrumental technique is not the only requirement for being a good and distinctive progressive rock band. After all, if all I cared about was great playing abilities, I would be sitting here reviewing various jazz recordings rather than talking about rock and its various forms. You see, it's a common misconception that the band was primarily a medium for the grandiose ambitions of Emerson. Now, don't get me wrong, the man could write an excellent and supremely catchy synth jam (Karn Evil 9.1 in particular), but in no way was Keith the creative epicenter of the band's music (at least, most of the time, when the band was at its best). No, that honor fell to Lake, who was an extremely talented pop song and ballad writer. I mean, grandiose and overblown as Tarkus is, it's really just three short, very catchy Lake numbers whose various musical themes are expanded upon with the help of Keith's synths and are reprised in just the right amounts. And that's hardly the only example, as great songs like Lucky Man or Still, You Turn Me On will show.

In any case, the point I'm trying to make is that the music of ELP, in general, is nowhere near as intimidating as it is often made out to be. If you're looking for solid pop and rock embellished with a bit of jazz and a healthy amount of classical and symphonic aspirations, you shouldn't be afraid to give them a try. I used to rate them as a two-star band, but surprisingly found that my enjoyment of the band has only increased over time (in particular, the debut REALLY grew on me, as you'll see in a bit), so a three-star rating (out of five) seems appropriate enough. Now go ahead and flame me for liking them as much as, say, Led Zeppelin.
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Points: 5262 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:02
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

People who don't like ELP says it's too bombastic and technical! For me, those caracteristics are not bad in itself. I really think the classical influence in their music make it difficult to be appreciate by a large fans base. I really enjoy the ELP sounds especially for the keyboards of Keith Emerson, but also the great rhythm section with Carl Palmer. They made great albums, but it has gone downhill at the end of their career. The 4 first albums are definitely a must have in a progressive rock collection. After that they're some good songs scatter on every albums. 


Yes, it's especially funny when that criticism comes from Dream Theater fansWink. Well, I suppose love is blindLOL...


Yes, i am a DT fan and i like technical music but not simply technical like the band Protest for Hero. Sometimes too much of a good thing is bad. I think DT and ELP have melody and emotions in their songs depite all the technical elements.Wink
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:28
I think those people who have a reasonable grasp of the lineage of Rock music from the late 60's, even if they don't care for ELP's music or loathe Prog, would acknowledge the trio as an indispensable part of the genre's rich legacy. Due to their massive global success and very high profile that probably peaked circa 1974, those who despise Prog have made ELP culpable for the sins of the entire 1st generation of proggers. (and more) Certainly they were flamboyant, hedonistic, ostentatiously wealthy and egotistical but are we to believe that the 'terminally hip' Stones, Oasis, Sabbath, Who, Bowie, Beatles, Queen, Chilli Peppers, Sex Pistols, Nirvana, Deep Purple, Zep etc eschewed entirely such decadent Rock'n'Roll traits ?
Is Keith Richards a non-smoking, tee-total, vegetarian, christian, tree hugging celibate who lives in a one bedroom flat on a council estate and gives all his royalties to a drug rehabilitation centre ?

There are possibly three areas where Prog is deemed to have declared war on the aesthetic ideals of those who profess to speak for 'the kids on the street'

1 - A degree of virtuosity is required to play Prog. It's an entry level qualification and you cannot bluff yer way through Karn Evil 9 armed with three barre chords, a broom handle bass and a 4/4 tub thumpin' beat y'all. Ergo the entire genre is considered inaccessible and 'divorced from the reality of the streets bro'.

2 - The subject matter of Prog is more often than not borderline sci-fi hippy cosmology, but more importantly it ain't remotely about disaffected yoof, teenage rebellion and slaughtering your parents with a six foot safety-pin.(then devouring their remains)

3 - Prog does has a tiny sliver of Jazz and R'n'B in its DNA but is for all intents and purposes unequivocally 'white' music that does not source its development from funk, soul, blues, motown, dance music or basic primal rock and roll. Without wishing to embroil us in undue controversy on an ELP appreciation thread, there is more than ample evidence to suggest that (exclusively white) music journalists in both the UK and USA have always had a covert racist agenda when it comes to bestowing their laurel wreaths on the heads of those they will subsequently decapitate before the month's out.




Edited by ExittheLemming - March 14 2010 at 08:46
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:51
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

I think those people who have a reasonable grasp of the lineage of Rock music from the late 60's, even if they don't care for ELP's music or loathe Prog, would acknowledge the trio as an indispensable part of the genre's rich legacy.

in all fairness... I think many do.   Here it gets muddy because people tend to think in terms of what they like rather than in terms of the genre itself.  I think many do have a good grasp of the lineage and history of prog..  they just don't think in those terms just what they like.  

 Due to their massive global success and very high profile that probably peaked circa 1974, those who despise Prog have made ELP culpable for the sins of the entire 1st generation of proggers. (and more) Certainly they were flamboyant, hedonistic, ostentatiously wealthy and egotistical but are we to believe that the 'terminally hip' Stones, Oasis, Sabbath, Who, Status Quo, Beatles, Queen, Chilli Peppers, Sex Pistols, Nirvana, Deep Purple, Zep etc eschewed entirely such decadent Rock'n'Roll traits ?

let's face it... has there EVER been a group with a larger kick me sign attached to them than ELP.  They aren't hip to like... they are hip to kick. LOL Call it a perverse kind of love. 
Is Keith Richards a non-smoking, tee-total, vegetarian, christian, tree hugging celibate who lives in a one bedroom flat on a council estate and gives all his royalties to a drug rehabilitation centre ?

There are possibly three areas where Prog is deemed to have declared war on the aesthetic ideals of those who profess to speak for 'the kids on the street'

1 - A degree of virtuosity is required to play Prog. It's an entry level qualification and you cannot bluff yer way through Karn Evil 9 armed with three barre chords, a broom handle bass and a 4/4 tub thumpin' beat y'all. Ergo the entire genre is considered inaccessible and 'divorced from the reality of the streets bro'.

McFerrin made an excellent point in regards to this in his write-up on  Yes.

But even their stellar chops, a definite asset, often gained them intense criticism for creating a type of 'musical elitism' that prevented an average garage band from being able to emulate themselves after Yes (or other prog bands, for that matter). After all, not every bassist can successfully pull off Roundabout, not every guitarist can do the lightning solos in Awaken, not every drummer can pull off Close to the Edge or Siberian Khatru ... you get the idea. Not only had the band constructed music that was far beyond the tolerance of the average listener, but their playing talents had created an almost untouchable fraternity that only a very select few could ever hope to enter.

2 - The subject matter of Prog is more often than not borderline sci-fi hippy cosmology, but more importantly it ain't remotely about disaffected yoof, teenage rebellion and slaughtering your parents with a six foot safety-pin.(then devouring their remains)

Very true.. I love prog. But unlike some... Prog is only one of many genres I love.  Let's just say I do not consider the subject (lyrical) side of prog to be one of it's strong suits.  Indulgent, pretentious music... yeah.. I can dig that.  Some guy who play yer geetar trying to lecture about some philosophical drivel..  no thanks.  Thank God for Italian prog.. where you can just enjoy the music.. and the voice as an instrument.

3 - Prog does has a tiny sliver of Jazz and R'n'B in its DNA but is for all intents and purposes unequivocally 'white' music that does not source its development from funk, soul, blues, motown, dance music or basic primal rock and roll. Without wishing to embroil us in undue controversy on an ELP appreciation thread, there is more than ample evidence to suggest that (exclusively white) music journalists in both the UK and USA have always had a covert racist agenda when it comes to bestowing their laurel wreaths on the heads of those they will subsequently decapitate before the month's out.

I've read of others saying something like that.  Nothing to add to that however.




Edited by micky - March 14 2010 at 08:52
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Points: 732 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 09:56
I'll have to take the time to read through the thread later in the week, but I'll just pop in now and at least say HERE, HERE Clap on the notion that ELP is a group that could really use more appreciation at PA.  

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Points: 12695 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 12:46
Come on, what do you people like about ELP? What's your fav album? Your fav song? Your fav member? There's a lot of talk (once again) about what people despise of them, and what you don't not like (I hope I didn't make this too confusing). But we should rather talk about what we do like. Now, what about Pictures at an exhibition? It may not have been their first album, but these were their first concerts with which they became known. For me, Promenade, The Gnome, The Old Casle with Blues Variations, Promenade with the first part of The Hut of Babba Yaga stand out. I even like Nutrocker quiet a bit. Ofcourse it goes without saying that keyboards are wonderful, but I think drums, and even bass, deserve a mention. It's not so common for the drums to follow the melody the way Palmer does in many moments of this album (usually they just do rithm), and I really liked the way they sounded.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 13:51

Once again my friends, allow me my indulgence.  There was no better band than ELP during their classic years.  And yes I'm comparing them with Yes, KC, Tull, and any and all of that ilk.

I've said it before.  Emerson was the Hendrix of the Hammond organ.  No one, before or after, to this day, pulled more rock sounds out of that particular instrument.  And no one was more visionary with regard to the Moog's possibilities.  And yes it all became theatrics and spinning pianos and synths that sprung wings and carpets and gongs down the road.  But early on, oh what a band. 
 
Go, listen to Knife-Edge, listen to Tarkus, listen to Blues Variation, hell, listen to Jerusalem and that Ginastera track. 
 
Really?  They suck?  I think it was Lake told the tale, the first 'song' they learned to play was Pictures At An Exhibition.  Really?  Name any other band that has those sorts of cojones.  Really.  Name one.   
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Points: 27729 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 14:24
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Clap

have posted this before (with permission LOL) and this is a good place to post it again.  One of the more insightful things I've seen written about ELP.  From John McFerrin's excellent review site...

The fact remains, however, that impeccable instrumental technique is not the only requirement for being a good and distinctive progressive rock band. After all, if all I cared about was great playing abilities, I would be sitting here reviewing various jazz recordings rather than talking about rock and its various forms. You see, it's a common misconception that the band was primarily a medium for the grandiose ambitions of Emerson. Now, don't get me wrong, the man could write an excellent and supremely catchy synth jam (Karn Evil 9.1 in particular), but in no way was Keith the creative epicenter of the band's music (at least, most of the time, when the band was at its best). No, that honor fell to Lake, who was an extremely talented pop song and ballad writer. I mean, grandiose and overblown as Tarkus is, it's really just three short, very catchy Lake numbers whose various musical themes are expanded upon with the help of Keith's synths and are reprised in just the right amounts. And that's hardly the only example, as great songs like Lucky Man or Still, You Turn Me On will show.

 


ALthough its an interestingly written peice he's actually way off the mark with the comment about Tarkus.This was composed by Emerson for exactly what he dismisses it as '' a medium for the grandiose ambitions of Emerson''. As is well known to ELP fans this caused considerable friction between Lake and Emerson as Lake considered it a solo peice and even threatened to leave the band. Of course he backed down and added the extra parts and the album became a big hit .
The biggest and most important ELP tracks were very obviously driven by Emerson and Lake was bright enough to let him have his head despite his own personal misgivings.This is because when it comes down to it there is no substitute for talent.Greg Lake although a fine musician and a sometimes good lyricist knows where he stands in the general scheme of things.
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Points: 8587 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 16:26
I really think highly of ELP's early recordings, especially the debut album, which is their best. They were trend setters, and justifiably so. I am not a big fan of Brain Salad Surgery, or any that came after it. A  group should be judged by their music, and that of early ELP is of a really high quality-i just cannot dismiss them as being pretentious or pompos because the music speaks of something beyond that. They were an inspiration to so many groups, especially my favourite band, Germany's Triumvirat.
           Only one thing is worse than people dumping on ELP's music, people who dismiss Triumvirat!
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Points: 799 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 16:34
I absolutely love ELP. I find them to be one of the boldest and most entertaining of all of the prog bands of the 70's.

As far as their importance in rock history, no other band has done so much to make the synthesizer a lead instrument in rock , and none other has done more to fuse jazz and classical influences into rock.

Just as Windows is the most reviled software because it is the most ubiquitous, the same can be said for ELP. The loathing is exaggerated because they are so fun to dislike for many. But not all of their songs were over-the-top - Greg Lake's simple but beautiful acoustic songs serve as a nice contrast, and the ragtime numbers added a little comic relief as well. No other band can cover a piece like "Pictures at an Exhibition", yet still sound like they are having fun.

That sense of fun and showmanship is what, imho, is missing from modern prog.
..::welcome to the shadow circus::..
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Points: 12695 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2010 at 22:44
I was listening to Pictures at an Exhibition once again today, and I guess I must say it really is my favourite album from them. All other albums have their weak or annoying parts (as well as their really great ones), but by listening to this one again, the "weak" song (the second Promenade with The Sage) are in fact rather beautiful (not as much as Take a Pebble or In the Beginning, but still nice), and the "annoying" song (The Curse of Baba Yaga) is indeed rather fun, I rather liked all the instrumental parts, the one thing I still find somewhat annoying in this son is the vocals (this is mainly the sort of vocals that makes some ELP songs annoying for me). The Great Gates of Kiev is nice too, though not a highlight. The rest of the album is really fabulous.
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Points: 1243 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2010 at 11:51
if someone can play with such a technique, compose that well and do this:



He must be out of the ordinary!
Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2010 at 12:18
Regardless of all their ups and downs and weaker songs, I absolutely love ELP. That's why I started the other thread of 'What's wrong with ELP?', it still does not fit into my head that this amazing band has got  NOT EVEN ONE album with 5 stars at PA, I find it unbelievable.
When I see for example that Arena's Contagion, or Mike Oldfield's Amarok to name a couple have 5 stars... sure they are good albums and all my respect to Arena and Oldfield, but that they can be rated higher than ELP debut, Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy, Brain Salad or Welcome Back ???  sorry I still do not get it Shocked
 
Some people say they would not rate ELPs albums with 5 stars because of Are You Ready Eddy, or of Lucky Man or of Benny the Bouncer... well I think that's very cruel, 'Mad Mad Moon' is not a masterpiece and 'I know what I like' neither in my opinion, but I still give 5 stars to Selling England by the Pound (as most others do, seen that it's got the 5 star average).
 
I do not put ELP on the altar as demi-gods or whatever, they made some really weak songs and after Welcome Back they became bland and at times even pathetic, and I'm the first one to say so. But their good music... my god it belongs to the 'creme-de-la-creme' without question!
 
All the prog superbands happened by the chance of great musicians coming together, and if this is true for nearly all of them, even more in the case of ELP. Keith was a genius during his inspired years (it's always difficult to understand how such genius can fade away, but it certainly did) and his ability and sensitivity with the piano was probably the best in prog, and it's with the piano where you see who's really the king. It's not that difficult to sound spectacular with a powerful synth, but playing classical piano can not be pretended, either you can or you can not.
 
Greg had one of the best voices around and was really cool with the bass.
 
Finally Carl has always had such a unique style, unortodox for the rock scene, taking the sticks in jazz-manner, playing with an unusually stiff attitude and mixing techniques of percussion with those of drumming. I have heard quite a few professional drummers critisizing him for his style and body language, but the fact is that he played some amazing parts, it fitted with Keith's way of playing and gave the band a very personal sound, different from either the rock-oriented drummers as well as from the jazz-oriented ones.
 
Just too bad they faded away so quickly.
 
 


Edited by Gerinski - March 15 2010 at 14:18
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