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Easy Livin 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
 Posted: March 10 2010 at 03:06 |
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Up until now, we've made a point of trying to keep the politics out of this thread. I think now though it is for Garion to guide us. Garion, it seems from your recent posts that you're OK with the wider debate developing now. We (the Admin team) will leave it to you to decide whether you're OK with that debate continuing. If at any time you want it stopped, just post to that effect here, or PM an Admin.
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11401 |
Posted: March 10 2010 at 03:48 |
As I said - this is pretty similar to heavy drug addicts. Most of them aren't able to stop doing drugs after rehab either. At best we're talking about 1 out of every 100. The point is to have a system that: 1. Prevents people from turning into such monsters in the first place 2. Prevents those who are checked for possible rehab to be able to harm people 3. Have a secure system that sees to it that those that aren't rehabilitated won't get the opportunity to harm other people 4. Sees to it that every instance of incurable offenders are kept from doing harm What I wrote previously here had many more dimensions to it than mere rehabilitation, and was in no way written, intended or phrased as a defence for these predators ;-) |
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: March 10 2010 at 15:15 |
Thank you Bob a gentleman as always.  My thoughts were to bring to light with what the parents said at the vigil the other night and my own thoughts based on that. I don't mind a debate on those points that doesn't get out of hand. I don't think what I was talking about is political . That usually means an agenda to promote a particular philosophy. I don't believe the safety of our children falls into that category and is appropriate for this thread now that we have found Amber. What Windhawk is bringing up I don't mind debating in anther thread. The question he raises is can we prevent sex criminals from becoming what they are. That is different from what I was talking about. That being we have these monsters already out there and how should we handle them now because that is relevant to Amber. I would think that anything relating and opinions concerning to the investigation and trial of whomever they catch is fitting to continue in this thread. Windhawks question is for future consideration. No offense Windhawk I think it is a relevant question but in another thread.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11401 |
Posted: March 10 2010 at 15:20 |
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Noted :-)
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 10 2010 at 15:29 |
amen brother... EXACTLY.... and something Raff nailed when we were talking about this last night at dinner (nothing passes for light dinner conversation in this house haha) That is where the ACLU comes in. I am not a member.. and not defending it. However like much in life.. it's goals are noble. Like many things in life... it has been perverted. It is not easy to see why it might .... why do we have the legal system we do. What is the core fundamental of our justice system. It really does run on the premise that the greater moral sin is not to let the guilty walk free... but to have the innocent lose their freedom. That is the moral question everyone has to ask... just what is more important. Is getting all the sex offenders locked away worth the cost of destroying the lives of the 'innocent whose transgressions pale in comparison to other 'true sexual offenders'. Who knows.... like many things that is a question that is answered by each indvidual's moral and political compass. I do agree completely with you Brian...the truly dangerous sexual predators need to be treated as a case onto themselves. Not to be rehabilitated... but removed from society period. Edited by micky - March 10 2010 at 15:30 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jammun
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: March 10 2010 at 22:44 |
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One last comment, and then I'll refrain, unless I don't.
As I've said, I am so sorry that this happened to Amber. This is needless loss which should not be inflicted on anyone. The people that do these kinds of things generally have been doing them for a while, and have often been incarcerated because of it. They do their time. Upon parole, which any reasonable person would question that they should receive, at least in my state they are required to register and provide an address. That's what the law allows. If they move, they are supposed to register that. Does not happen. Some are required to wear GPS ankle bracelets, which they remove. There are not enough parole officers on the planet to follow up.
As mentioned, I don't know how many meetings there were at my kids' elementary school to inform us of a Level 3 offender moving into the area (Level 3 meaning will reoffend, only a matter of time/opportunity).
I get so pissed off. Violence. Invariably, at some point, these people are incarcerated. The state declared them rehabilited (or not), and sends them on their merry way. They should stay locked up, forever.
I know Amber's family will somehow make something good come of this.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 14:31 |
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Here are some new revelations:
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66588 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 14:37 |
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An article in today's Detroit Free Press says that a man approached a girl walking to my former Junior High School yesterday. http://www.freep.com/article/20100310/NEWS04/100310067/1320/Cops-seek-man-who-tried-to-lure-teen-into-SUV This is my neighborhood. Something like this really hits home. I want to say that there was a report about a month ago of other kids in the city being approached. I have to believe that it is the same person or people doing this.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 15:52 |
well... as if I wasn't in a piss poor mood after getting myself blown up at work today thanks to one of the idiots I work with.. the more I read Brian... on Gardner.. and everything else regarding the way these people are handled... the angrier I get.... like this gem...'With anger growing over the recent San Diego teen murders, the governor ordered correction officials to stop destroying sex offender parole records.' I couldn't have read that right... but it goes on... In a statement he (Gov Schwarzenegger) said, "It is in the best interest of public safety to retain all information on these individuals and to make as much information as possible available and transparent." no... really? the system failed Amber.. from the local police.. all the way up.... Why does 'anger have to grow' before people act. Was nothing learned from all the other murdered children (in California ALONE) at the hands of these monsters... Edited by micky - March 11 2010 at 15:53 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 17:51 |
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That last part was in reaction the State Assemblyman from San Diego who brought it up. I posted that story earlier. I am not sure if Arnold knew about it. Would need to research as to when that decision was made to destroy records. To Arnold"s credit he changed it the same day this came out.
This one will not make you any happier |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 18:04 |
probably not... but thanks for sharing these Brian. Yes it will probably (as other articles have) reinforces some of my already expounded upon ideas... but obviously... I have taken a very personal interest in this. I know others have as well... and should know just how the system has failed those it should be protecting. As you've said... as i've said... the only way this will stop.. and things might change as if the people demand change. i do hope... really hope.. that Amber will not just simply have law named after her.. that the courts, special interests and governmental ineptness will weigh down and make akin to a band-aid on a gunshot wound. I really hope Amber and Chelsea will finally get people.. and the government take notice of what is going on..and how these predators are free to come and go.. and rape and kill again... and finally DO something about it. one strike and you are out.... there are enough first time rapists and murders out there in the gene pool without recycling the ones already identified and caught. Edited by micky - March 11 2010 at 18:05 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65606 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 18:04 |
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the excuse for record destroying is usually 'lack of space', which in our age doesn't really hold up as that kind of documentation could just be electronic.
Though not nearly as important as a missing youth, today it was revealed that most of the letters Jackie Kennedy received after the assassination were pulped - pulped - by the National Archives. Just disgraceful, especially since the letters could've been placed in the JFK Library or the family's personal records. |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 18:10 |
wow... I hadn't heard that...  By the National Archives of all people... need to read up on that... that had to be a screw up and not a decision TO do that. I know some of the people that work there.. and have spent a lot of time there when writing my book... to those people ..history IS sacred. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 18:15 |
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hmmm... no wonder the system fails us..
"Whatever precautions are taken to protect a community from sexual predators, they can never be foolproof, unless we do not have a free society," said former San Diego County District Attorney Paul Pfingst. is it just me... or is that just stupid. Excuses... You commit a crime...are convicted of a crime... you can (depending on the crime) forfeit your rights. Didn't everyone... including DA's... learn that in high school civics. It has NOTHING to do about not having a free society. Edited by micky - March 11 2010 at 18:16 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 18:45 |
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Well if the courts are rejecting the one and done that is already on the books then what are we to do. I think what the DA was saying is there would still need to be the first crime to get them off the streets.
Check this out I really love the stupid comments down below ridiculing these kids civil action. |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 11 2010 at 18:54 |
good for them Brian... that is wonderful to read.. and thankfully I can not read the comments... I'm not a member. Probably for the best. After my last posts... I considered following Jim's example and bowing out of the thread rather than let my temper get the better of me and running my mouth off. I am afraid of drawing unwanted commentary into your thread, and don't want to disrupt it. As I said.. the more I read.. the more I learn.. the angrier I get. It is like the grief I feel for Amber, you and your family, has turned to pure anger and don't want my anger or temper to disrupt this thread. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: March 12 2010 at 00:42 |
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Micky, don't do that. We do that to much. Your voice needs to be heard. All of you do not go quietly into the night. This is the real problem. All of you have said how much this story has touched you. Then make sure it doesn't happen again. I love all of you. Your support has been enormous comfort for me and Stacy. DO NOT LET IT END HERE. Please!
Let all of you be Amber and Chelsea's living memorial. We cannot do this alone.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: March 12 2010 at 01:14 |
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Please understand this as respectfully as possible, because I do try not to be an ass when talking about death, but what the hell happened to the human trafficking lead you supposedly had months ago? Although there is currently no evidence against Gardner, if it does turn out to be him like everybody's assuming, that's a far cry from human trafficking. I think you paid your PIs too much...
He's talking about if they ever get out, and that's a reasonable point. And while you may not want them to get out, I am fairly certain you are never going to see life sentences for rape. Personally, I'm not comfortable giving life to someone for one crime that did not take a life--according to the internet, the average sentence for the broad spectrum of murders is only 17 years. It seems obvious that murder is worse than rape, yet we don't have a National Murder Registry. Of course, Gardner seems to be severely mentally ill, so that adds a whole host of other issues.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: March 12 2010 at 01:25 |
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First off HP, respectively, you don't know anything from the human trafficking lead or our PI's info. Whatever our PI's found out it was up to the police to react. They have no jurisdiction. Tell me what you would have done? There were reports of her being sighted in Tijuana as well as Escondido. Hell I thought I saw a homeless woman that looked just like her in San Diego when I was down there for a professional conference in November. It turned out to be false just like all of the others. I thought I was going to have a heart attack. Edited by Garion81 - March 12 2010 at 01:47 |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 12 2010 at 14:38 |
 that we have been able to support you and Stacy does mean a great deal to all of us. I know it sure does to Raff and I. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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My Wife's Niece is Missing!
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Garion81 wrote: