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The Quiet One View Drop Down
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Points: 15745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:14
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  
 
Yeah, that era is lovely, though not sure if I would consider it Jazz Rock "with Prog credentials"
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:15
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:15
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Who's next : Vashti Bunyan, Bill Fay, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, John Martyn, Buffy Sainte-Marie ?

Should I understand that all the folk-rock artists/bands of the late sixties/early seventies belong to folk-prog ???

Just because you like a band, it doesn't mean it has to be prog...


I believe people here are not so shallow to believe an artist is prog just because they like it.
I love Neil Young, he certainly influenced a number of prog artists (Yes included) but I don't believe he should be here.
I don't like Nick Drake and I think he perhaps deserves a place here.

Oh, and John Martyn is already here.Tongue




Edited by clarke2001 - February 28 2010 at 10:17
Percussion, sir!
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:16
Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  
 
Yeah, that era is lovely, though not sure if I would consider it Jazz Rock "with Prog credentials"

steely dan, jazz-pop is here. So having Joni Mitchell, playing stuff in the same league, would not be a surprise.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:19
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  
 
Yeah, that era is lovely, though not sure if I would consider it Jazz Rock "with Prog credentials"

steely dan, jazz-pop is here. So having Joni Mitchell, playing stuff in the same league, would not be a surprise.


Joni Mitchell's live album Shadows and Light, recorded with Jaco and Metheny among others, has often being discussed for addition, and would be here if a 'prog one-shot' category had been implemented.
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Points: 17332 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:23
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  

her most expeimental album has to be : 'the hissing of summer lawns'. 



Oh yeah, forgot about Hissing!  That is an amazing album. 

Well, I won't start this thread on Joni, but she wouldn't have to be JF, I think you could make a case for PR.
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:27
about experimental albums by non-prog female vocalists, we should cite Dalbello's 'whomanfoursays' and also her last which is darker 'whore'. 
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:30
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:33
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also can sing for 20 mn...
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 10:46
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Who's next : Vashti Bunyan, Bill Fay, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, John Martyn, Buffy Sainte-Marie ?

Should I understand that all the folk-rock artists/bands of the late sixties/early seventies belong to folk-prog ???

Just because you like a band, it doesn't mean it has to be prog...


I believe people here are not so shallow to believe an artist is prog just because they like it.
I love Neil Young, he certainly influenced a number of prog artists (Yes included) but I don't believe he should be here.
I don't like Nick Drake and I think he perhaps deserves a place here.

Oh, and John Martyn is already here.Tongue



^ Thanks for being sensible, here. I can't stand it when somebody accuses me of pushing an artist for no good reason. I specifically DON"T do that. If I honestly didn't think Drake had a chance in hell of being added, here, I wouldn't have suggested him.

Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:03
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also can sing for 20 mn...
Yes but John would improvise greatly during those 20 minutes and be as inventive and experimental as any of the accepted artists here.
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:04
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also can sing for 20 mn...
Yes but John would improvise greatly during those 20 minutes and be as inventive and experimental as any of the accepted artists here.

For heaven's sake. John Martyn IS here. Just do a site search. LOL
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:05
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Who's next : Vashti Bunyan, Bill Fay, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, John Martyn, Buffy Sainte-Marie ?

Should I understand that all the folk-rock artists/bands of the late sixties/early seventies belong to folk-prog ???

Just because you like a band, it doesn't mean it has to be prog...


I believe people here are not so shallow to believe an artist is prog just because they like it.
I love Neil Young, he certainly influenced a number of prog artists (Yes included) but I don't believe he should be here.
I don't like Nick Drake and I think he perhaps deserves a place here.

Oh, and John Martyn is already here.Tongue



^ Thanks for being sensible, here. I can't stand it when somebody accuses me of pushing an artist for no good reason. I specifically DON"T do that. If I honestly didn't think Drake had a chance in hell of being added, here, I wouldn't have suggested him.

Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko
I think Nick Drake paved the way for dark folk/gothic country and has disciples in Nick Cave, Sol Invictus, Death in june, Jay Munly...but never thought of him as a prog artist. 

post-punk (and its US equivalent : no wave, as opposed to new wave) is experimental, just like post-rock and post-metal, which are not prog subgenres as well but are considered as such here...I meant to add it as a subgenre just because it's another of those "post-"something" that, through its experimental side, has something to do with "prog". Most of the bands of the post-punk bands will probably find their way in prog-related or crossover-prog, I don't know, but it doesn't really reflect the musical genre they belong to, and it adds even more confusion as to what is prog-related or crossover-prog.


Edited by lucas - February 28 2010 at 11:12
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:07
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

[

^ Thanks for being sensible, here. I can't stand it when somebody accuses me of pushing an artist for no good reason. I specifically DON"T do that. If I honestly didn't think Drake had a chance in hell of being added, here, I wouldn't have suggested him.

Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko


Welcome to the clubWink! It seems some people can't disagree with a suggestion or addition without questioning other people's motivations.
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Who's next : Vashti Bunyan, Bill Fay, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, John Martyn, Buffy Sainte-Marie ?

Should I understand that all the folk-rock artists/bands of the late sixties/early seventies belong to folk-prog ???

Just because you like a band, it doesn't mean it has to be prog...


I believe people here are not so shallow to believe an artist is prog just because they like it.
I love Neil Young, he certainly influenced a number of prog artists (Yes included) but I don't believe he should be here.
I don't like Nick Drake and I think he perhaps deserves a place here.

Oh, and John Martyn is already here.Tongue



^ Thanks for being sensible, here. I can't stand it when somebody accuses me of pushing an artist for no good reason. I specifically DON"T do that. If I honestly didn't think Drake had a chance in hell of being added, here, I wouldn't have suggested him.

Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko
I think Nick Drake paved the way for gothic folk/gothic country and has disciples in Nick Cave, Sol Invictus, Death in june, Jay Munly...but never thought of him as a prog artist. 

post-punk (and its US equivalent : no wave, as opposed to new wave) is experimental, just like post-rock and post-metal, which are not prog subgenres as well but are considered as such here...I meant to add it as a subgenre just because it's another of those "post-"something" that, through its experimental side, has something to do with "prog". Most of the bands of the post-punk bands will probably find their way in prog-related or crossover-prog, I don't know, but it doesn't really reflect the musical genre they belong to, and it adds even more confusion as to what is prog-related or crossover-prog.

No, I know, man. Smile I was honestly just trying to make a point. In your situation with the post-punk thing, you felt that it deserved a place here. The majority (at least for now) disagrees. Similarly, I felt that Drake had some merits to at least consider for inclusion, but the majority disagrees with me, also.

So we both have been in the same situation, and I guess I felt it was a little rash for you to accuse me of something I would never do in a million years (suggest an artist simply because I like them), when in fact you had been in a similar, out-ruled boat not even two weeks ago. 

But no harm meant. 
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also can sing for 20 mn...
Yes but John would improvise greatly during those 20 minutes and be as inventive and experimental as any of the accepted artists here.

For heaven's sake. John Martyn IS here. Just do a site search. LOL
I know!Tongue I'm just defending his inclusionWink
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:08
hahha... exactly.. join the club.  Trust me... there are no depths to the level some will stoop if they disagree.  
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Points: 4659 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:25

Nick Drake has been proposed and considered several times over the past 4-5 years, for both Prog Folk and Prog-related.  He is currently on the 'not likely' list for Prog Folk, simply because there is little merit to the argument his music is progressive in any way.  That said, I believe all the Prog Folk collabs are fans.

I'm not sure if any other genre teams have considered him; frankly IMHO it would be hard to picture him anywhere but Prog Folk if he were to be included here at all.
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:41
^
yes, folk-rock is what qualifies the best his music...
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:43
Joni Mitchell????????????????????????????????????


You can flame me now, I have broad shoulders and an asbestos jacket.


But come on people.
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