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jampa17 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
 Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:08 |
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That's my problem... for you it's a different band.. but for legacy meaning, Genesis is the prog and pop one... so... I seriously doubt they can recieve the united support... so...
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Chris S
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:05 |
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And for that we respect your opinion Ivan, but for many post Hackett albums Genesis were still very much prog to certain members of the forum here.
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 11:57 |
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I respect your opibnion, but don't share it, I believe that the status of Prog Legend needs almost unanimous support, and I'm sure DT doesn't have it.
Of course I'm trying to give reasons why I don't agree.
I see it different, I see Genesis at least as 2 different bands that share the name for economic reasons.
Until Hackett left they are a Prog legend
From there on, they were a POP legend.
Iván.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 11:56 |
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Sorry, duplicate post
Iván. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 16 2010 at 11:58 |
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:25 |
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Iván [/QUOTE]
basically yes... I was wondering with myself and get to that conclussion... I don't believe in democracy so... my opinion should be the one that counts...
I don't get your argumentation about Genesis... I mean, I don't understand it... there can be a prog legend that had 10 years of not been prog...? in that case, Genesis is not a legend because was mainly pop during the 80's... right...?
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progmetalhead
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 15 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2081 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:21 |
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You've obviously had a bad day Ivan
Lets just agree to disagree
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:18 |
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No, it isn't...If a representative number of fans of Progressive Rock doesn't even consider them Prog, they can hardly be a legend of Prog, because people is not certain about their identity.
Gabriel Genesis is a Prog Legend, Hackett & Collins Genesis is a Prog legend, The trio is hardly a Prog legend, because despite many people believe ATTW3 and Duke are Prog, many other people (Me included) believe Genesis became POP after W&W.
Many bands and artists had imnpact in Prog world, like Hendrix, The Beaytles and Miles Davis, the are here, but hardly considered Prog legends, They may be Rock, Pop or Jazz legends but never Progressive Rock legends, and I'm sure at least Beatles and Davis had a bigger impact in Prog than DT.
[/QUOTE] They are legends Ivan, wether you like it or not... [/QUOTE]
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 16 2010 at 10:21 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:10 |
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Not right Progmetalhead
1% considers them Prog (exclusively)
1% Consuiders thjem Metal exclusively
40.91% Considers them PROG with Metal elements
54.55% Considers them METAL with Prog elements
Being Metal MAINLY with Prog elements doesn't mean the are Prog, many 70's POP, Rock and whatever bands have Prog elements, but are not here.
Iván
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:08 |
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I thinki we are discussing two different things...
first, DT is prog... just see how is called their special tour "Progressive Nation" in which they pick other prog bands to play with them... it was easier for them to do a "Metal Nation"? the fact that in this site there are a few or a lot of people doubting of their progressivenessless is really out of the discussion... I don't think Radiohead is prog but is already in this site and I will stay with that...
second, the impact of the band in the prog world is already there, with the thousand of prog metal bands that are a complete sub genre in this site besides of all the contributions of each member of DT have bring out each time... so... I think you are starting to discussing something that is not matter of this thread...
They are legends Ivan, wether you like it or not...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:01 |
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This pises me, when people use the word "open minded" to describe other people who agree with them, prove how limited is their perspective........In other words or you accept what I believe or you are a close minded.
 .
I'm not sure if DT is Prog, but as I say, I give them the benefit of the doubt, but if people believe they are not Prog...Well, they are entitleds to their opinion even if we don't share it, but the kit is that you don't have the ruight to call them close minded because they have adifferent perception of reality than you. Learn to accept what others believe as they accept your position.
Plus you are making the point of those ho don't believe DT is Prog...You say you will leave with all the other metalheads if some people believe DT is not Prog.
 Iván
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progmetalhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2081 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 09:32 |
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Ivan
Firstly you state: I say that A GOOD NUMBER of Progheads here don't consider DT Prog:
In the thread for point 1: 98% of pollers consider DT prog.
In the thread for point 2, I fail to see where anyone (let alone a good percentage) say they are not Prog. Maybe Certif1ed but I think he was just having a laugh.
 They may not have been the best threads to choose to back up what you say.
oh and btw they are MOST definitely prog IMO.
If not, I may as well leave this forum and site now, together with all the other metalheads and genuine people with open minds
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 08:58 |
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I believe your comparison is absurd and even offensive, most of our members are not even for Russia, and would be stupid to even say that most Russians are part of the Mafia.
But let's go to the backup: I say that A GOOD NUMBER of Progheads here don't consider DT Prog:
Read:
As you see, I always back up what I say. I'm not sure if they are Prog or not, but give them the benefit of the doubt, well at least I admit Ruddess and Portnoy have also played in Prog bands (don't know about Myung and Petrucci and don't care about La'Brie). Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 16 2010 at 09:17 |
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 08:10 |
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Well... I don't know guys but... did Genesis were a leyend during the 80's? of course not... especially when they were publishing their pop material... they have to stay a litle bit more to be consider a total legend... so, that's what happen with DT right now and in this site... Raff is right... of course DT is not in the level of Pink Floyd BUT PF is no more... so, there's no rules about how many years you have to be there... is just that your influence will remain evident on the genre... and since 10 or 15 years ago, DT label is all there... we have to wait a little more but the most probable is that they will be more famous when they stop playing... that's a common thing to happen... we miss them more when they are gone...
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 05:58 |
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You know, there is a simple fact of life - the further back in time you are, the more you're likely to become a legend. This is not only true in the world of prog, but for the arts in general, including literature. So, I am not surprised people consider the classic bands of the Seventies as legends, while DT still haven't reached that status in the eyes of many. In my opinion, there are many more reason than just this one, but it may very well be that DT will manage to stand the test of time, and in 2030 be hailed in the same way as Yes or Genesis are nowadays.
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SergiUriah
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009 Location: I don´t know Status: Offline Points: 453 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 21:42 |
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I hope those words weren´t dedicated to me.
 I love DT, but be real, please.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17964 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 21:29 |
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 21:12 |
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I consider plenty of their albums gems of Progressive Rock. Clearly no one else agrees with me...
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 21:08 |
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1. Fair enough, although that doesn't necessarily keep them from being legends. 2. Support? I could argue that a very high percentage of Progheads do consider them prog. Hell I could state that a very high percentage of Progheads are members of the Russian mafia and spend their spare time doing coke and offing offensive politicians. Doesn't mean anything unless you can back it up. 3. I agree with this (their top rated album, IAW, is ranked significantly lower on the site than albums by other, non-legendary bands such as Anglagard, Camel and Harmonium) but to me the reason why they are legendary has less to do with their actual output and more to do with the impact they've had on the prog scene. |
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 21:00 |
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I think the 70s/80s bias of a lot of guys on this site may be hurting DT's chances of being hailed a prog legend. I mean, the classic bands like Floyd, Yes, etc, etc are never debated as being classic or not here. DT are disputed here, let alone outside PA. Even on metal sites, there's as many DT haters as there are diehard fans.
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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SergiUriah
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009 Location: I don´t know Status: Offline Points: 453 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 20:35 |
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^
I´m OK with all you have exposed here. But... are we rating their legendary suposse because of their sales and impact in 20 years with no legends in prog and counting their commercial success overall, OR are we truely rating their global musical impact and composition qualities which are more important?? For me they are a prog masters, no more. Legends, never.
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DT... already a prog legend?
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Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
