| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
micky 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
|
 Posted: January 26 2010 at 21:45 |
|
AHM was a long piece of music.. an instrumental, a good excuse to get stoned..but not a prog 'epic' on order of the examples Brian mentioned with some kind of point to it. Otherwise we could drag In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida into the conversation haha. Long song... kick ass jam... but no prog 'epic'
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
|
Posted: January 26 2010 at 22:04 |
|
For me AHM fits perfectly as an epic, and perhaps even prog (even if it's not got such complex structures). It is a perfectly cohesive piece of music, with repeated themes, and even the messy noisy part at the middle of the song serves it's purpose and (even though I don't like it so much) I wouldn't do without it when hearing the song.
|
|
Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
|
Posted: January 26 2010 at 22:05 |
|
For me AHM fits perfectly as an epic, and perhaps even prog (even if it's not got such complex structures). It is a perfectly cohesive piece of music, with repeated themes, and even the messy noisy part at the middle of the song serves it's purpose and (even though I don't like it so much) I wouldn't do without it when hearing the song.
|
|
Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 00:04 |
^ I disagree Tarkus is a completely orchestrated piece of music with far more structure and concept than AHM. Besides the fact that any of The Nice albums were far more prog that AHM in concept and execution. Pink Floyd at this point wasn't much more than a jam band. But more to the point how much of this album influenced the bands that came after it in the short term. Looking at the structure of the other pieces I mentioned I think it is pretty clear and it is not AHM.
|
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
|
|
Marty McFly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 02:45 |
 Dellinger wrote:
You may already know that Prog usually requires repeated listening to unerstand what's going on and apreciate it, so you may just as well try again, and again, and again, until you are sure you do like them or not. I myself don't like many of their songs, and I don't like all of Tarkus, but some parts of it are uneniably amazing. |
It does, that's right. But most of music I've been listening (prog music), didn't want repeated listens, only few. I of course will give them a chance. If this chance fails, I'll give more, I just wanted to say that it's not easy catch of my heart.
I've talked about it with my girl and have to say that she also heart them once, but didn't remember much of their music. "A lot of solos & improvisations, maybe too much" she said.
|
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 03:56 |
I don't actually like most ELP that I've heard, but the early stuff is undenably great prog.
My personal opinion is that most of The Nice output is far superior to any of the ELP material - but ELP are the influential ones, and carried on the tradition set by The Nice, taking the musical ideas to new and more ridiculous levels...
10/10 for effort in the early years, 0/10 for "Love Beach".  |
|
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
|
|
Malve87
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2005
Location: Genova, Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 252
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 05:21 |
Atavachron wrote:
in reality, not only are they probably still the most well-known prog band (worldwide, especially among non-proggies), |
That's Genesis...and Pink Floyd, too...  Anyway ELP is not my favorite band, but I like them; you have to thank punk (  ) for today's ELP "reputation"...the fools... 
|
]
|
|
Marty McFly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 05:24 |
Marty McFly wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
You may already know that Prog usually requires repeated listening to unerstand what's going on and apreciate it, so you may just as well try again, and again, and again, until you are sure you do like them or not. I myself don't like many of their songs, and I don't like all of Tarkus, but some parts of it are uneniably amazing. |
It does, that's right. But most of music I've been listening (prog music), didn't want repeated listens, only few. I of course will give them a chance. If this chance fails, I'll give more, I just wanted to say that it's not easy catch of my heart.
I've talked about it with my girl and have to say that she also heart them once, but didn't remember much of their music. "A lot of solos & improvisations, maybe too much" she said. |
At first (last year), I didn't like Gentle Giant. Now, I quite like them. I almost wanted to say: "Don't teach eagle to fly."
|
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my
|
|
harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 06:36 |
Garion81 wrote:
Pink Floyd at this point wasn't much more than a jam band. |
I stongly disagree with that, PF's psychedelic music was the end of a compositional effort, contrary to jam and improvisation. I do agree with you on your main stand though, AHM and Tarkus do represent completely different stages of development for progressive rock (like adolescence and maturity). They can't really be part of the same discussion.
Edited by harmonium.ro - January 27 2010 at 06:36
|
|
Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1029
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 19:33 |
Malve87 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
in reality, not only are they probably still the most well-known prog band (worldwide, especially among non-proggies), |
That's Genesis...and Pink Floyd, too...
Anyway ELP is not my favorite band, but I like them;
you have to thank punk () for today's ELP "reputation"...the fools...
|
Yeah. Punk failed to kill prog in 77 (despite what the media might tell you), but damn, it did kill the media's perception of prog. I still see Yes and ELP jabs in the mainstream music press...
It is a big media beat-up, though. Prog didn't just vanish in 1977, as we all know here. It's just that public tastes and attitudes changed. They reverted to wanting to hear 2 or 3 minute songs, rather than epics. That said, the big stadium bands that punk wanted to kill off were still selling out huge tours in the late 70s. Zeppelin played to a massive crowd at Knebworth 79, right? Pink Floyd were still reeling them in.
|
|
Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65268
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 19:50 |
|
and Prog still gets a cold shoulder, at least in the write-ups and articles I read (granted they're usually by non-progophiles), with the winking and derisive 'humor' about an indulgent, inconsiderate form of music... you'd think by now things would've come around and the genre would get the appreciation it surely deserves - that some maverick in music journalism with the guts and insight to give credit where it's due would stand up - but no, it's still more than cool to Prog-bash, even with Genesis' HoF induction. So be it. Their loss.
|
|
himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
|
Posted: January 27 2010 at 20:07 |
|
ELP doesn't seem that unapproachable to me as many have said. It was definitely the first prog I ever heard and I was immediately drawn in. That being said, it was the first album, not that "welcome back my friends" garbage.
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: January 28 2010 at 02:52 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
Pink Floyd at this point wasn't much more than a jam band. |
I stongly disagree with that, PF's psychedelic music was the end of a compositional effort, contrary to jam and improvisation. [/QUOTE]
That is partly true;
Some of Pink Floyd's early work was kind of drafted, like an architectural blueprint (3 of the Floyd were architecture students, IIRC), and they created a framework containing pre-composed ideas - but improvised heavily around this structure.
That was the main difference between them and regular psychedelic bands - and, seemingly contradictorily why they sound so much like them too. 
|
|
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
|
|
Losendos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571
|
Posted: February 02 2010 at 00:23 |
great band in their heyday but their fall was hard and they never got a second wind unlike Genesis Yes and Pink Floyd. Some how they got identified with all that was wrong with prog which is totally unfair even to being dubbed the second worst band of all time . Brain salad surgery must be one of the best ten prog albums of all time but even prog fans are divided about this band .
Some random thoughts ; I think in the end karma plays a hand in what one's legacy is . Maybe the Gods did not like the regular atheist tracks.
|
|
How wonderful to be so profound
|
|
presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8618
|
Posted: February 03 2010 at 19:21 |
|
ELP are very well recognised, and deserving of every bit of attention they recieve, but what really irks me are some of the groups inspired by ELP, like Triumvirat, Latte e Miele, or even Le Orme and Triade and The Trip that somehow, with one thing or another, have tended to get lost in the shuffle. These groups have even made music better than ELP, and are really unrecognised-that is the real tragedy!
|
|
ProgressiveAttic
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 05 2008
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 1243
|
Posted: February 03 2010 at 19:59 |
Losendos wrote:
great band in their heyday but their fall was hard and they never got a second wind unlike Genesis Yes and Pink Floyd. |
What about Black Moon and to a lesser extent In The Hot Seat (its far far away from being their best but it contains some nice tunes + a spectacular version of Pictures at an Exhibition)
|
Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com) 
|
|
billsibb
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5
|
Posted: February 04 2010 at 04:29 |
Hello Prog Lovers,
This is a really interesting debate - and long overdue; as one old enough to cite a newly-formed ELP as my introduction to the genre I still say, to this day, they have never been surpassed in everything that is and was "prog". They were by no means the first prog band - the genre evolved slowly from the psych/art rock movement, but I think they were all that was prog and everything that entailed, and in my very humble opinion, everything else has been a poor imitation. There have been many bands of equal talent (or even better), particularly from other parts of Europe, but for me ELP=prog.
Thanks everyone for a great forum, and best wishes from one who was there!
|
|
".......nobody ever messed with the sherriff"
|
|
raindance
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 24 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 443
|
Posted: February 05 2010 at 04:53 |
There where only three prog bands that were elevated to superstar status
1. PINK FLOYD
2 YES
3 ELP
Yes, they were very important to the prog genre  |
|
Losendos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571
|
Posted: February 05 2010 at 05:00 |
genesis were superstars sold out wembley 4 days running.
Supertramp were also superstars
The moodies were superstars too
King Crimson are legends but that is somewhat different
|
|
How wonderful to be so profound
|
|
Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1038
|
Posted: February 05 2010 at 08:33 |
Losendos wrote:
genesis were superstars sold out wembley 4 days running.
Supertramp were also superstars
The moodies were superstars too
|
Genesis were popular in the 70s but not really top level superstars,
that came more with their 1980s pop incarnation. Supertramp and the
Moody Blues are more crossover bands and not strictly prog IMO.
ELP really were huge in the early and mid-70s with only Yes rivalling
them for global commercial success among prog bands. They were one of
the four biggest grossing live acts in 1974 along with Led Zep et al
and co-headlined the California Jam with Deep Purple.
Edited by Cactus Choir - February 05 2010 at 08:36
|
|
"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
ELP's importance not fully recognised