Steve Miller Band would be @ PA?

The Doctor wrote: Just say "abra-abra-cadabra"

...Ought to be careful because it may take you to the Land of Confusion ... better to say I Can't Dance, or Jesus He Knows Me - that's more safety.

Edited by ko - January 11 2010 at 05:28

Only when I can fly like an eagle. 

I haven't listen all SMB albums, but their middle-late period is kind of blues-rock, pop-rock and pure pop for me. Minimum progressive feel. For sure, I can't decide on this basis only.

jammun wrote: Logan wrote: For anyone to discount the impact of American musicians/ bands on progressive rock/music would be sheer ignorance.  Particularly look to the US Psyche scene and Fusion.  And the US continues to produce so much fantastic progressive music.   Not to mention rock and roll/ rock, and jazz specific.... I'm not that familiar with the Steve Miller Band, but what I've heard of the 60's recording are really good and so, without being knowledgeable enough yet to fully endorse it, I would think Proto-Prog or Prog-Related. I'm not much of one for what is sometimes called Pomp Rock and AOR albums (that have a relation to Prog), which doesn't mean I don't support them in the archives because that would extreme narcissism to think that what I like is what is PA-worthy, though, of course I'm more enthusiastic about ones I like.  I do like what I've heard of Steve Miller Band. Personally, I think there's too much of a bias against those who did blues-rock (blues-rock being a very Amercian form of music). Zappa is one of the most respected musicians in the archives (as well as people such as Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock). Anyway, most of that is pretty unnecessary. This is a great track: For me, I don't deny the progressive aspects of early Steve Miller.  My point of view is that Children of the Future is the finest of the 'San Francisco' bands debut albums (poor old Moby Grape a distant second).  Obviously In My First Mind fits the bill.  From that album, so do many other tracks, notably Baby's Calling Me Home, with its harpsichord and jazzy changes.  From Sailor, again a number of progressive tracks.  But I thought the rule here is there has to be a progressive album?  And any album that ends with what is essentially a blues medley of Junior Saw It Happen, Fanny Mae, and Key to the Highway doesn't fit the bill.  I'm just saying, if we are going to be consistent then Steve Miller Band probably shouldn't be included.  If they are to be included based on a few songs, then I've just seen a great Dire Straits video (see Police vs. Dire Straits thread over in that other forum) that seals the deal for DS.

A progressive album -- depends what you mean by that.  I don't know that the first album is that progressive (as in innovative) because I suspect that Steve Miller Band was jumping on the Psyche bandwagon; however, it has a fusion of genres which is a very important trait of Progressive Rock.  I certainly don't expect a Prog album from one in Proto-Prog or Prog-Related (though it has happened -- and of course it partially depends on what one thinks is Progressive Rock or progressive music).  If you look at the Proto-Prog definition then I think that the debut and to a lesser extent the follow-up fits Proto-Prog quite well stylistically (there are other considerations to take into account).  Music off other albums have Prog-Related merits.  I don't think in terms of consistency that much, I approach each suggestion quite independently (there is of course the if so-and-so is here then so-and-so should be here too argument which is valid when enough comparisons can be drawn, but I avoid the, if so-and-so isn't in then so-and-so shouldn't be in arguments).  I don't know Dire Straits that well, but it doesn't have any Proto-Prog merits.  I'm of a much more inclusive mind-set when it comes to acts that have albums considerable for Proto-Prog than ones that only have albums considerable for Prog-Related.

Not only do I not think that an act should have a full-blown "progressive" album to be includable in either Proto-Prog or Prog-Related, if that's the case, I think it's better highlighted ina Prog category for the album though I would like an album-based category for specific albums inclusion rather than bands/artists, but I don't see why ending with a blues track would make any difference -- a hallmark of progressive rock is variety.  I'm sure no one would complain with a  band being in Prog of an album if the last piece was pure classical (to use the term loosely).

Like I said, I don't know Steve Miller Band well enough to offer full-support but see how well you think the early albums fit Proto-Prog (at least from a sound perspective and not influence or importance):

Proto-Prog definition The denomination Proto Prog comes from the combination of two words, Proto from the Greek The earliest,. and Prog which as we know is a short term for Progressive Rock, so as it's name clearly indicates, refers to the earliest form of Progressive Rock or Progressive Rock in embryonary state. These bands normally were formed and released albums before Progressive Rock had completely developed (there are some rare Proto Prog bands from the early 70's, because the genre didn't expanded to all the Continents simultaneously The common elements in all these bands is that they developed one or more elements of Prog, and even when not completely defined as part of the genre, they are without any doubt, an important stage in the evolution of Progressive Rock. Generally, Proto Prog bands are the direct link between Psyche and Prog and for that reason the Psychedelic components are present in the vast majority of them, but being that Progressive Rock was born from the blending of different genres, we have broadened the definition to cover any band that combined some elements of Progressive Rock with other genres prior to 1970. Some of these bands evolved and turned into 100% Prog, while others simply choose another path, but their importance and contribution in the formative period of Prog can't be denied, for that reason no Prog site can ignore them. Iván Melgar - Morey

For anyone to discount the impact of American musicians/ bands on progressive rock/music would be sheer ignorance.  Particularly look to the US Psyche scene and Fusion.  And the US continues to produce so much fantastic progressive music.   Not to mention rock and roll/ rock, and jazz specific....

I'm not that familiar with the Steve Miller Band, but what I've heard of the 60's recording are really good and so, without being knowledgeable enough yet to fully endorse it, I would think Proto-Prog or Prog-Related.

I'm not much of one for what is sometimes called Pomp Rock and AOR albums (that have a relation to Prog), which doesn't mean I don't support them in the archives because that would extreme narcissism to think that what I like is what is PA-worthy, though, of course I'm more enthusiastic about ones I like.  I do like what I've heard of Steve Miller Band.

Personally, I think there's too much of a bias against those who did blues-rock (blues-rock being a very Amercian form of music).

Zappa is one of the most respected musicians in the archives (as well as people such as Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock).

Anyway, most of that is pretty unnecessary.

This is a great track:

I own an old book printed in 1976/1977, The Ilustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock, (Salamander Books Ltd, London), where Nick Logan and Bob Woffingen wrote about early SMB as very important one of early progressive rock bands. It seems that general view about "what's prog" have to have drastically changes from that time. 

Edited by ko - January 08 2010 at 03:18

Epignosis wrote: Much as I like the Steve Miller Band...um...no.

I would be bias but have to agree......Book of Dreams as an album comes close many times and ' Song for our Ancestors' would be a no brainer even with the bluesy breaks.

ko wrote: [ PS Ought to say why you dont accept him, in my opinion. TBH, I think that reason is because he's American.

Yes, an American whose favorite band is Kansas is clearly biased in this regard. 

ko wrote: Epignosis wrote: ...um...no. Can you tell me why?

Because the Steve Miller Band is largely a blues rock outfit.  Can you name one progressive rock album they've made?

The first Youtube sample is kinda progish, but many bands in the 1970s dabbled around with this sort of experimentation.  The second Youtube sample is a live version of this.

The third Youtube sample...I'm sorry, but that's one of the most ordinary chord progressions in modern music.  It's a nice song, but not progressive rock in the least.

The fourth Youtube sample is a bit more complex, but still not progressive rock.  It could be likened to Uriah Heep a bit, but still-

Can you name one album that is progressive rock?

Much as I like the Steve Miller Band...um...no.