The Theist - Agnostic - Atheist Poll

Look, if you are OK that the believing in God is not bad or negative to mankind per se, it's a progress, for me, religion is a method to reach a superior level in your state of mind, or soul or call it as you like... but I don't think it's negative and I'm glad that people could have faith in some invisible force and believe that we are not alone... for me that's enough and I don't care if catholics are a minority -certaintly not in my country- or if there becomes a new religion more plausible, what I believe is that our believing in God is what makes us good so... I don't like a future without God... for me that future, for too rational you want to show it, is sad and mankind will be a lot more sad and selfish, but we already discuss this in another thread so...

Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ well, my hope is that some day the Einsteinian god will be the latest trend.

Why?

He's no fun to go to Vegas with.

jampa17 wrote: Dean wrote: There are so many possible explanations it is always easier to take the one that best fits your particular beliefs, or more accurately, the one that gives us most comfort. With death, one of the biggest regrets is never having the chance to say good bye - regardless of our personal beliefs and thoughts about what happens after death, we all grieve when someone close to us dies - the chance to say good bye alleviates some of that grief for us. 20 years on, not being able to say goodbye to my dad before he died still hurts - it is a very powerful emotion.   As a cynic and sceptic, I cannot help but notice that in this case the message arrived in the house (by phone) long before the aunt's revelation - while there was no direct verbal communication between Iván's mother and aunt there was undoubtedly non-verbal (body language, demeanour, candour etc), and without knowing the actual layout there is always the possibility of the either the phone conversation or any later conversation between Iván's parents being heard through water-pipes, heating ducts, wall cavities, wiring conduits, etc. the acoustics of a house change drastically late at night when all normal household activity has stopped.   If it had occurred the other way around (premonition followed by external confirmation) I would be less sceptical, but still would expect a non-paranormal explanation.   Well, one friend that I'm chating right now through google has just tell me that his mother dreamed with a relative one day and she mention to her family the next morning that they should ask for that relative and maybe go and see her, and that die that relative died, of course, before they went to see her so... there's no practical or easy explanation don't you think...??? yes, I know you can pick the easier explanation acording to your belief, but there are case in which that is not that simple...

jampa17 wrote: Well... I wasn't saying it's a miracle, but, it happens that most of these dreams you did not mention if it's a regular dream... but, whatever, I already said that I don't believe in coincidences, for me that do not happened, because I believe in that perfect plan so... but I know your explanation I have hear it many times, but it still is just a theory or a probability, and happen not be the most accepted, IMO, of course... well, I'll be back...

Dean wrote: jampa17 wrote: Well... I wasn't saying it's a miracle, but, it happens that most of these dreams you did not mention if it's a regular dream... but, whatever, I already said that I don't believe in coincidences, for me that do not happened, because I believe in that perfect plan so... but I know your explanation I have hear it many times, but it still is just a theory or a probability, and happen not be the most accepted, IMO, of course... well, I'll be back... And that is the difference between science and belief     I do believe in coincidence and it is very cool when coincidence happens, but it's not remarkable, paranormal or predestined from my perspective. They are only co-incidental because we make the connection between the two events, even though in reality they are not connected at all.   (Sorry, I was being liberal with the use of the word "miracle" before.)

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Dean wrote:   As a cynic and sceptic, I cannot help but notice that in this case the message arrived in the house (by phone) long before the aunt's revelation - while there was no direct verbal communication between Iván's mother and aunt there was undoubtedly non-verbal (body language, demeanour, candour etc), and without knowing the actual layout there is always the possibility of the either the phone conversation or any later conversation between Iván's parents being heard through water-pipes, heating ducts, wall cavities, wiring conduits, etc. the acoustics of a house change drastically late at night when all normal household activity has stopped.   If it had occurred the other way around (premonition followed by external confirmation) I would be less sceptical, but still would expect a non-paranormal explanation.   Not quite right Dean.   The call came at 1 am when everybody was sleeping, that house was so big (made of concrete as most Lima houses), the water pipes are inside the ground, there were no atics or basements, so it was impossible for somebody to listen almost 70 mts away.   The next morning was school day and we woke at 6:30 am (as usual) with our parents having breakfast, my aunt woke 10 minutes later  (she was music teacher on a school) and the fitrst words my mother said  when my aunt crossed the kitchen's door were "I have some bad news"   Her friend was healthy 60 something woman, so nobody was expecting anything, and the direct answer from my aunt (who was a very Catholic woman and would never lie): "Yes Julia died, last night,  she came to say goodbye", without even tears in that moment.   Nobody gave her a  clue, could had more easily be my grandmother (who was like 8 years older), any of her brothers, but she pointed Julia directly.   I tried to find explanations for years, but never was able.   Iván

Sorry, I was not trying to debunk your story, just supplying an alternative view since I do not "believe" in paranormall activity at all - if none of the rational explanations fit the scenario then I'm happy with the "lucky guess" solution.

"So none of these things can be proved by science because they are not of science, they can only be believed by faith, so there cannot be a rational explanation and cannot be given the benefit of the doubt."

I'm an Atheist but don't use that term myself as I feel using a term for a non-belief is akin to a Religion/Philosophy.

I do not need to prove God does not exist.  I know it does not.  I also do not mean the normal view of God.  I mean all forms.

I have lived 29 years perfectly fine without any need for religion and I am happy being this way.

It is but at the same time, I don't care.

I'll just get on with life, thank you very much.

Henry Plainview wrote: I can respect pure atheism, but apathy is terrible. What happens after death is more important than life because death is forever, you can't just blow it off...

Why not? If everything ends with death, if there is no after death, then it is not forever, death would lasts less than a yotta-second and then you are dead.