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Negoba 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
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Points: 5208
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 Posted: January 04 2010 at 20:48 |
Here's mine spooky wierd thing:
There was a kid I grew up with...scouts, grade school, and he actually sat next to me in my first school band in 6th grade. We weren't great buds but he was someone who was always around. As we got into high school, he started doing heavy drugs and dropped out of school and I moved to a college prep school and pretty much forgot about him.
2nd year of college, I have a dream about him which is just him looking at me and saying "Who are you to judge me?" I hadn't thought of the guy in years.
Turned out he got run over and killed that night trying to walk home from a party.
What does it mean? I don't have any friggin idea. Was it a miracle? I don't know. But it was wierd.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
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Points: 6802
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 08:29 |
^ As I am a person who don't believe in coincidences, I believe on it... I think there's a strange connection in our brains... and that there are some links, maybe energies or whatever and that happen very often... I have dreamed about things that end up happening the next day, so I really believe there's something very deep about that... I know that if someone gives the credit to that kind of things, maybe there's a rational explanation... but I can consider it a miracle... yes... why not...???
In my family that kind of dreams have occured when someone die... and there's other people who claim that some physical events occured as well so... I do believe in that particular "miracles"... wel... how else you can call to a thing like that...???
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 08:47 |
Wel, to the question of Mike.
I have a member of my family that wanted to end his life
He/she took 50 blood preasure pills and 40 sleeping pills, after a couple of hours he/she called us and told what he/she was trying.
So after two hours, 50 blood preasure and 40 sleeping pills, he/she was taken to the hospital.
His doctor told us that most the pills were already absorbed but because of the number of fragments he found, didn't doubt (we found the boxes) and the time passed was evident, in the hospital, the expert told us there was absolutely no medical explanation,that it was IMPOSSIBLE.
This person didn't had breakfast, but is devote of a determined saint and God of course to whom he/she tremember having prayed when became scared.
All the doctors with whom we talked, told us it was a miracle, or at least simething that defied medical logic....The unanimous word was IMPOSSIBLE but TRUE.
This person never tried it again and despite his/her problems continued for some time.
Iván
BTW: I know this person well, and is the last one who would do anything to impress us, he/she did it when there was nobody at his/her house and called us to the office after the suicide didn't worked
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 05 2010 at 09:02
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 09:02 |
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^ well, I could think of a number of reasons that might explain it ... of course these would be highly improbable, but I wouldn't call it impossible. For example some of the pills could have gone bad (expired), the person could have eaten something which prevented or at least delayed in their absorption, or there could have been something wrong with the stomach or small intestines which prevented or delayed the absorption (more likely since like you said the number of fragments was counted). There also could have been something in the interaction between the pills that delayed or changed the effects of the medicine.
I'm not trying to refute your miracle (prove it wrong), I'm just saying that even in a case where you would conclude that a miracle took place, I can still draw other conclusions.
BTW: I would agree with saying that it "defied medical logic", but I'm sure that many doctors will tell you that such things happen regularly. Rarely, but not that rarely, and also to nonbelievers.
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - January 05 2010 at 09:04
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 09:16 |
 Mr ProgFreak wrote:
^ well, I could think of a number of reasons that might explain it ... of course these would be highly improbable, but I wouldn't call it impossible. For example some of the pills could have gone bad (expired), the person could have eaten something which prevented or at least delayed in their absorption, or there could have been something wrong with the stomach or small intestines which prevented or delayed the absorption (more likely since like you said the number of fragments was counted). There also could have been something in the interaction between the pills that delayed or changed the effects of the medicine.
I'm not trying to refute your miracle (prove it wrong), I'm just saying that even in a case where you would conclude that a miracle took place, I can still draw other conclusions.
BTW: I would agree with saying that it "defied medical logic", but I'm sure that many doctors will tell you that such things happen regularly. Rarely, but not that rarely, and also to nonbelievers.
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- The pills were new, bought the previous day when he/she was preparing everything (The doctors verified the packages, because expired pills may be even more dangerous)
- The person took the pills at 8:00 am with nothing in the stomach (That was obvious with the liquid coal they use to clean the stomach).
- Sleeping pills enhance the effect of BP pills.
- The fragments existed because the number of pills was so big (90), that even after two hours some fragments would had stayed because the human body would not had metabolized more than 70% which is already a huge number of pills.
No doctor had an explanation, one of them said he had seen a similar case with sleeping pills exclusively, but with blood preasure pills, it was absolutely impossible because the effect would had been devastating.
Something more, according to the doctors we should expect this person to have some internal organs destroyed (specially the liver) .............Nothing happened, this person was let outside the hospital after 48 or 72 hours.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 05 2010 at 11:22
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 09:21 |
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^ this would suggest to me that for whatever reason the absorption rate of the chemicals was delayed or slowed down, or that for some reason the chemicals did not have the effect. I'm not saying that I have a plausible explanation, and I'm certainly not a doctor, but I still don't think that "miracle" is the only possible explanation.
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
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Points: 1072
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 09:51 |
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Miracle for you:
I was listening to Phil Collins on shuffle and I thought "in the air tonight," and it played immediately
later I thought "I don't care anymore" and it played immediately, then I thought "another day in paradise and it played immediately.
Each time there was a 1 in 40 or so chance,
Don't you see, Jesus exists
JK
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 09:53 |
Why the body is able to withstand some things and not others is a mystery most of the time, which is something any doctor will tell you. Faith in its raw form is certainly an enormous factor in who lives and when. Many very ill patients choose when their time will be, and it's not uncommon for them to have been "visited" prior to making the decision.
There is also the phenomenon that every ICU nurse will tell you happens all the time, that a very ill person who has been unconscious for days will wake up and say a few words right before they go. It can be very chilling but it is extremely common.
Is there some possible mechanistic explanation? Maybe. I doubt it. Does it prove the existence of the Judeo-Christian God. Of course not.
It does prove, to me, that there's a lot going on that is beyond our ability to understand.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 10:42 |
Negoba wrote:
Why the body is able to withstand some things and not others is a mystery most of the time, which is something any doctor will tell you. Faith in its raw form is certainly an enormous factor in who lives and when. Many very ill patients choose when their time will be, and it's not uncommon for them to have been "visited" prior to making the decision.
There is also the phenomenon that every ICU nurse will tell you happens all the time, that a very ill person who has been unconscious for days will wake up and say a few words right before they go. It can be very chilling but it is extremely common.
Is there some possible mechanistic explanation? Maybe. I doubt it. Does it prove the existence of the Judeo-Christian God. Of course not.
It does prove, to me, that there's a lot going on that is beyond our ability to understand. |
Yeah... the same happen when someone is in agony, he/she start talking with somebody who is already dead, most of the ascient people said that the "dead come to take him", I don't believe that, but I'm sure there's a superior explanation for that to happen. I know someone could said that in their agony moment their are just evocating the past time, but most of the times those are talking only to the people who is already dead, they even said that they are seeing them in that particular moment so... we are getting into a very chilling moment... jejeje..
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
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Points: 1009
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 11:05 |
I found Mike's whole philosophy in this one simple quote from Walt Whitman.
| Seeing, hearing, feeling, are miracles, and each part and tag of me is a miracle. | |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 11:10 |
jampa17 wrote:
Yeah... the same happen when someone is in agony, he/she start talking with somebody who is already dead, most of the ascient people said that the "dead come to take him", I don't believe that, but I'm sure there's a superior explanation for that to happen. I know someone could said that in their agony moment their are just evocating the past time, but most of the times those are talking only to the people who is already dead, they even said that they are seeing them in that particular moment so... we are getting into a very chilling moment... jejeje.. |
I don't use to believe in paranormal things, but I had an experience.
I had an aunt that raised my mother because my grandma died in labour.
She used to see strange things (My mother and sister have the same lets same "gift", but in much lesser degree), it was common for her for example to say when my parents were on another country "Hey, hasn't the phone rang? I thought it was your mother", and 10 or 15 seconds after,. my mother was calling without previous advice.
One night when my dear aunt was old, we received a call at 1:00 am telling us that her best Friend from the childhood "Julia" (I remember the name as if it was yesterday) had died without being sick previously..
My parents decided to keep the news until the morning, because there was no use to alter her during the night, so next morning when we were having breakfast, my mother told her "I have some sad news for you", my aunt replied "Yes, Julia died last night, she came to say goodbye"
I can't explain this, my aunt was a kind overweight woman who lived with us and hardly moved from her bed in the night, my parents room was in he first floor (between the first and second in a mezzanine to be exact) and she lived in the second floor side by side to my sister and my room, and there was no other phone in the house.
I don't know how to explain this, never did, and never will, but I tell what I saw.
Iván
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 11:31 |
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This is of course an intriguing story. But even if we suppose that this was true, how would it relate to your Christian belief? Dying relatives visiting their loved ones in their dream before they pass away ... to me it would be more likely that she somehow heard this while she was half asleep and somehow incorporated it into her dreams. Or it was sheer accident that she guessed right. When an old person is told "I have some sad news for you", my guess is that he or she will suspect that some friend has died, and considering that Julia was her best friend from childhood it is not unlikely that she dreamed of her, and then, when suspecting that she had died, she made the connection to the dream.
All that I say sounds unlikely ... but IMO your explanation sounds even more unlikely. I'll just always gravitate towards the logical, rational explanation, as improbable as it may seem.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 11:44 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
This is of course an intriguing story. But even if we suppose that this was true, how would it relate to your Christian belief? Dying relatives visiting their loved ones in their dream before they pass away ... to me it would be more likely that she somehow heard this while she was half asleep and somehow incorporated it into her dreams. Or it was sheer accident that she guessed right. When an old person is told "I have some sad news for you", my guess is that he or she will suspect that some friend has died, and considering that Julia was her best friend from childhood it is not unlikely that she dreamed of her, and then, when suspecting that she had died, she made the connection to the dream.
All that I say sounds unlikely ... but IMO your explanation sounds even more unlikely. I'll just always gravitate towards the logical, rational explanation, as improbable as it may seem.
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In this case I agree with you, I was 16 years old, agnostic and searched all the possibilities, really I found no explanation, and I assure you it's true, I was there and we were cold as ice..
The house was huge and my dads were at one extreme of the house, while my aunt was with her mother (who was 92) in her room upstairs.
We weren't allowed to have phone (because sister used to speak hours and it was very expensive), and my parents used to sleep with the doors closed.
Even more freaking was hat my aunt, who loved that friend as a sister, didn't even cried,. she showed no surprise at all, and in her case with her previous experiences with phone rings, visits who were comming with no advice, etc, even more.
There was no way she could had heard anything, honestly I find absolutely no explanation, and believe me, I tried.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 05 2010 at 11:48
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 11:52 |
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^ I've given you an alternative theory to her overhearing the conversation though, haven't I?
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 12:01 |
^ I have plenty of stories about this issues and always gives me the creeps because most of the time there's no logical explanation... with my grandparents happen the same, that they start talking in a dreamy-wake state that there was his mother and brothers and sisters calling him to go with him... my grandpa seems to want to go with them physically, but there was nobody in the room besides my dad and the rest were all dead.. so... he seems to be very pleased to rejoined with his family... and then he start the agony...
the "physical" explanation I found for these -I have a lot more stories but I don't need to put all of them- is that we are linked by some energy, and when someone is about to die, you can percieve -well, not you but someone- that loss of energy and that's what people called that the dead "comes to say good bye"... as we know, we have not discovered the whole power of our brains and I believe that there's an explanation... of course, I'm not saying that it has to be something about the christian god in particular but that there's too much that we don't know, so we can disscount the possibilities.. right...???
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 12:04 |
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^ but the Christian God is the only God ... your belief teaches that. So, as strange as it may seem, these experiences could even be said to contradict your belief.
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jampa17
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Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
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Points: 6802
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 12:12 |
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No... Mike... well, when you said I believe in the True God, you know that is the one revealed trough Jesus to the apostols, that's ok, but that doesn't mean than only believers would have seem or experienced his grace, because many of non jewish according to the bible live in grace much more than those who suppose to be the choosed ones, right...??? so, there's no contradiction buddie... There are plenty examples on the scriptures in which those non-jewish recieve a lot of blessing from God, even more than the Jewish... so, no, Gods shows us in the Bible that the salvation is not limited, and if you have more accurate documentation about Catholics, you should know that there are plenty religions that the Church considered saved as well and those who don't believe in the Church but expect in the judgement day and lives a life in grace... for example, the east church of Russia and Greace, knowns as the "ortodox" church is considered as well as the Catholic church...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 12:15 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
^ but the Christian God is the only God ... your belief teaches that. So, as strange as it may seem, these experiences could even be said to contradict your belief. |
Not exact.
The G-d of the Jews, Jehova and Allah are all the same God, the differences came later, but all goes back to Abraham.
As a fact if Christ came today, he would probably go to a Synagogue.
There are morethings that unite us than those that separete us.
Iván
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Mr ProgFreak
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Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 12:17 |
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^^ that wasn't quite what I meant in the previous post ... but I understand what you mean.
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - January 05 2010 at 12:18
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: January 05 2010 at 12:18 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
^ but the Christian God is the only God ... your belief teaches that. So, as strange as it may seem, these experiences could even be said to contradict your belief. |
Not exact.
The G-d of the Jews, Jehova and Allah are all the same God, the differences came later, but all goes back to Abraham.
As a fact if Christ came today, he would probably go to a Synagogue.
There are morethings that unite us than those that separete us.
Iván |
Guess that's what I wanted to say... and I'm sure I say it in another thread some days ago... of course in the middle ages that was not like that but it was a political influences on the power of the religions... but now we know we believe in the same God, even having different traditions and rituals so... yes... that's what I was saying...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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