Vangelis was progressive! |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14256 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 04:18 | ||
Too commercial? I've never heard Nucleogenesis in a disco. I heard Owner of a lonely heart and another brick in the wall, instead. |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 04:28 | ||
Iván didn't say 'cheesy in parts', he said 'Jon & Vangelis albums, which I found cheesy (specially "The friends of Mr Cairo")' .. he then goes on to say 'still the title song sounds like a soundtrack for a B class detective movie' ...
How is that cheesy? Does it sport a mullet? Wear shoulder pads and spandex pants? Open its shirt to the navel to show-off its hairy chest and gold medalion? Sing power ballards about dead pet dogs? Build a City on Rock'n'Roll? String together tired cliches to make a lyric? Drip enough schmaltzy syrup to power a Pancake house for a month? Does it try too hard to be trendy and cred? Does it go on tour with Michael Bolton and Celine Dion? Does it display so much kitschy lack of taste that it makes garden gnomes look cool?
'Back To School' is disposible pop, but it isn't cheese. 'Inside of This' is sentimental but is too understated to be schmaltz. 'Believe' - okay I'll give you that one... in a Neil Morse kind of way. 'State of Independance' ... even the Donna Summer disco version doesn't make it onto the cheese scale.
The Vangelis stuff used on Cosmos was from Heaven and Hell, which Anderson provided lyrics for.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 06:16 | ||
That's why I conditionally sided with him. Be it resolved that Friends was corny instead of cheesy on the tracks Back To School and Friends Of Mr. Cairo. I've never been one to dis prog when it's gets cheesy, corny, campy or however you'd characterize some of it's less serious moments. Part of the charm for me actually. Benny The Bouncer, Cannibal Surf Babe, pretty much all of the Residents, Whodunnit, Hocus Pocus, etc. I do believe Albedo was also in the Cosmos soundtrack. Jon's brief contribution to Heaven and Hell was very nice. Just the mention of it and the music comes into my head. Edited by Slartibartfast - December 22 2009 at 09:58 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 06:19 | ||
Corny lyrics are the corner-stone of Prog (given the latest Good Lyrics in prog thread)
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Tuzvihar
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 18 2005 Location: C. Schinesghe Status: Offline Points: 13536 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 07:57 | ||
I'm in no way an expert in Vangelis (in fact I only heard his "Conquest of Paradise" soundtrack a long time ago) but I agree we shouldn't depend on one person's tastes. He may think whatever he wants but if majority feels otherwise... I also think that a genre team should consist of at least three members to be able to outvote such intransigent person. |
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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."
Charles Bukowski |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14256 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 08:34 | ||
Hey, if one thinks that Vangelis is cheesy he has the right to think so. We are discussing about feelings and tastes not about Truth. I'm enjoying this forum and since when I replied first, I have been back to listen to Vangelis. There's a lot of musicians that I don't like, and mentioning them may create a "scandal". I hate Phil Collins, just to mention one. |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 08:38 | ||
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What?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 11:01 | ||
Of course Dean, if we all agreed, this would be a terribly boring forum.
But I insist, I find Jon & Vangelis, specially Friends of Mr Cairo and The Bird Song, extremely cheesy (as for example Circus of Heaven, Don't Kill the Whale and Arriving UFO by Yes...mostly because Join Anderson lyrics).
BTW: Not negativism, it's my taste, negativism is to say ELP is crap, and I read it thousands of times.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 20 2009 at 11:01 |
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 11:12 | ||
I think this discussion is keeping the world in sync.
If only someone over in Copenhagen would stand up and say " Well what about that Jon & Vangelis' Friends Of Mr. Ciaro record , I don't know about you guys but I really think it's kinda cheesy".
Edited by Vibrationbaby - December 20 2009 at 14:16 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 11:46 | ||
"cheesy" is a positivism?? Perhaps in a kitsch so-bad-it's-good kind of way...
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What?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 11:51 | ||
Some cheese once in a while is good.
I find some songs from Spartacus (T-Rat) a bit cheesy, but still one of my all time favorite albums.
Arthur on Ice by Rick Wakeman is pure Gouda, but I would had loved to be there.
Iván
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Tony R
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 12:31 | ||
I don't think you could ever put a positive spin on calling anything "cheesy" unless it was cheese...
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: December 20 2009 at 13:33 | ||
And it would depend of which cheese we're talking about. |
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ko
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2009 Status: Offline Points: 314 |
Posted: December 21 2009 at 04:36 | ||
Heaven & Hell is my fav album ; this is my fav Vangelis soundtrack , though:
Edited by ko - December 21 2009 at 04:57 |
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jammun
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: December 21 2009 at 23:06 | ||
As FZ said,
Cheesy Cheesy
This is a song about vegetables...
They keep you regular...
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: December 22 2009 at 02:54 | ||
Lame title, great track:
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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philippe
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 14 2004 Location: noosphere Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
Posted: December 22 2009 at 03:28 | ||
Vangelis plays easy listening-functional-radiophonic-mainstream synth music which features just a few memorable proggy moments...that's the reason why I moved it from electronic prog to Prog related years ago. I did the same with J.M Jarre, but for the last I think he doesn't deserve a place in a website devoted to prog rock, whatever the subgenres. In France Jean Michel Jarre is compared to the most cheesy-old fashioned commercial artists we have. It's clear that Vangelis deserves a better mention than Jarre, but prog related is just what his music sounds like.
Edited by philippe - December 22 2009 at 03:59 |
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: December 22 2009 at 07:41 | ||
Vangelis is cheddar cheese. Jarre is Venezualan beaver cheese.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14256 |
Posted: December 22 2009 at 08:53 | ||
So "Horizon", "Entends, tu le chiens aboyer", "Ignacio", "Soil Festivities" are prog related only while "Sussudio", "Big generator", "Remote Romance" and "Heartbreaker" are prog? |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: December 22 2009 at 09:57 | ||
Fortunately, as far as I know, neither one has the bouquet of an aborigine's armpit. Would someone please shut the bloody bouzouki music off!! Thanks to Roctopus for that link to the Dragon song. I hadn't heard it in years. May still actually have the LP undamaged by the flood. Edited by Slartibartfast - December 22 2009 at 10:09 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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