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antonyus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2006
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Posted: December 18 2009 at 07:28 |
i admited Gilmour very talented as a guitar player but waters is the creative one ! if waters doesnt exist who would know Gilmour?
no question....waters !
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LonesomeTwin
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Joined: December 15 2009
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Posted: December 18 2009 at 09:05 |
There's a common perception that Gilmour is NICE vs Waters' NASTY. Gilmour can play, Roger can write. The other two did what they did and the result was a whole hugely, massively larger than the sum of its' parts.
Seems to me tho, that by wearing his heart so visibly on his sleeve Roger has become public property. We <i>know</i> him far better than Gilmour. But it takes two too make an argument, so we can be fairly sure that given the ferocity of the battles between the two of them that Gilmour has a stubborn, fractious streak every bit the equal of Rog's. Just look at the tenacity with which he's clung on to court cases he should by any reasonable standards have lost at the first hearing. No, the man has depths, mosty dark, and inhospitable. Wouldn't say that Roger was exactly Mr Happy tho of course.
As to musicianship, Gilmour is noticeable whereever he plays. Go check some of Sam Browns back catalogue. That single quality rates him 'up there' as a guitarist. The Waters-less Floyd, and especially the solo Dave work reminds me mostly of a 3-legged dog - it wants to be the same as the others, but it can never keep up.
On Pulse, Guy Pratt isn't a patch on even Roger on bass, he's only there as 'part of the family', more Gilmour nepotism.
Oh yeah the topic. Waters, incontravertably
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I always had a deep respect I mean that most sincere
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yface1
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
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Posted: December 18 2009 at 18:00 |
A Person wrote:
I think the opposite, although Gilmour is a far better musician than Waters, but that is only my opinion.
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And isn't that the entire point of an opinion poll? So long as we are both agreed that both musicians rocked hard during their PF time together?
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My entertainment dollar is burning in my pocket!
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
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Posted: December 19 2009 at 11:41 |
Waters vs Gilmour? The very bad in this sentence is "vs".
Together they have done Comfortably numb. Enough to put them in the history of music.
I give my preference to Gilmour but the live8 has been a stunning experience.
And please don't forget the great Rick in the sky
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 06:38 |
They argue like a pair of little girls...
Rick Wright
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elder08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 25 2010
Location: Russia
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 13:13 |
Gilmour in charecter and musician ship Roger seems a bit too smug kinda like yeah I'm roger waters I can f**king punch the pope and no one will do anything hahhaha
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"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
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tamijo
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Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 14:29 |
Water, as in who the f. is Gilmore
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 15:43 |
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him?
All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky?
Now you can prefer one or the other, but PF are just all them together. In favour of sir David I can say that High Hopes is better than any other song written by Waters after the Final Cut.
Syd Barrett started everything. Without him they would have likely been just another British blues revival band.
Nick Mason was the glue.
Thanks to all of them.
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RoyFairbank
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 16:34 |
octopus-4 wrote:
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him?
All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky?
Now you can prefer one or the other, but PF are just all them together. In favour of sir David I can say that High Hopes is better than any other song written by Waters after the Final Cut.
Syd Barrett started everything. Without him they would have likely been just another British blues revival band.
Nick Mason was the glue.
Thanks to all of them. |
Yes but Waters came up with the concepts, the Floyd psychological and philosophical stance and mission, the effects and voices, the drive and masterminding. Floyd is Roger Waters. Aurally, fine, the sound intermingles with the meaning, and that sound is partially Gilmour and Wright, but LARGELY, overwhelmingly even, the meaning is Waters. Could the sound have developed without Water's message? Impossible. Even the copy cat woks of Gilmour exploit this message, because without it the music is impotent. When I cite Pink Floyd as a major influence on me Philosophically and psychologically, I'm talking about Waters, not Gilmour.
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progpositivity
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Joined: December 15 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 262
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 18:07 |
Nick Mason - because he is the one creative enough to come up with the idea of eating pie without the crust.
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Dellinger
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 22:59 |
RoyFairbank wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him?
All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky?
Now you can prefer one or the other, but PF are just all them together. In favour of sir David I can say that High Hopes is better than any other song written by Waters after the Final Cut.
Syd Barrett started everything. Without him they would have likely been just another British blues revival band.
Nick Mason was the glue.
Thanks to all of them. | Yes but Waters came up with the concepts, the Floyd psychological and philosophical stance and mission, the effects and voices, the drive and masterminding. Floyd is Roger Waters. Aurally, fine, the sound intermingles with the meaning, and that sound is partially Gilmour and Wright, but LARGELY, overwhelmingly even, the meaning is Waters. Could the sound have developed without Water's message? Impossible. Even the copy cat woks of Gilmour exploit this message, because without it the music is impotent.When I cite Pink Floyd as a major influence on me Philosophically and psychologically, I'm talking about Waters, not Gilmour. |
But the concept is not everything Floyd was about, though it seems it was the most important part for you, and ofcourse, that's your choice. If we think Floyd is Waters, then the sound would be that of Amused to Death, which is very good anyway, but we would never have had Dark Side, Wish you were here, Animals (which are among my favourites, and I prefer over Amused to Death). Even The Wall would have been very different if Waters had not had the input from the rest of the band (ever heard the Demos for that album?), even if it was almost all written (lyrics and music) by Waters.
Edited by Dellinger - May 05 2010 at 21:40
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 03 2010 at 23:11 |
I agree with moshkito about Rick Wright. His beautiful, haunting serenity and stillness lent that cosmic dimension to Floyd's music which I cherish most among their many facets. Without that, they would be a great band with great concepts (Waters) and great guitar playing (Gilmour) but not Pink Floyd. There have been rock keyboardists who could have chopped Wright in two for,er, chops but none who used it more beautifully than he, imo. Instead of duelling with the guitarists or trying to evoke a pseudo-classical atmosphere, he used the keyboard as a tender, delicate counter to the distortion and edge of electric guitar and thereby took rock to a different level.
As for the question at hand, I can barely listen to Waters solo but can tolerate the last two Floyd albums and even like On An Island, so Gilmour. He was the better musician (and also the better singer).
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octopus-4
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 03:39 |
rogerthat wrote:
I agree with moshkito about Rick Wright. His beautiful, haunting serenity and stillness lent that cosmic dimension to Floyd's music which I cherish most among their many facets. Without that, they would be a great band with great concepts (Waters) and great guitar playing (Gilmour) but not Pink Floyd. There have been rock keyboardists who could have chopped Wright in two for,er, chops but none who used it more beautifully than he, imo. Instead of duelling with the guitarists or trying to evoke a pseudo-classical atmosphere, he used the keyboard as a tender, delicate counter to the distortion and edge of electric guitar and thereby took rock to a different level.
As for the question at hand, I can barely listen to Waters solo but can tolerate the last two Floyd albums and even like On An Island, so Gilmour. He was the better musician (and also the better singer). |
It doesn't mean that I don't like Waters. "In the flesh", the DVD, is fantastic and Snowy White is one of my favourite guitarists.
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Paravion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2010
Location: Denmark
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 08:02 |
octopus-4 wrote:
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him? All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky? |
yes yes (i'm afraid so) and yes. I don't see where you are going with those rhetorical questions. It seems like a strange way to get some point across. My imagination is vivid - I can imagine all sorts of things. Where's the relevance according to gilmour/waters battle? Isn't it obvious that pink floyd was pink floyd? (a group of musicians who created that particular music at that particular time)
I'm not af fan of either - when I was young and easily impressed i was really into pink floyd and a sworn waters fan. I still have a lot of respect (and occasionally enjoy) the music they created prior to dark side of the moon.
With regards to the question, the only thing I can say is that Waters seems to have much more character and I certainly prefer his voice over gilmour's. Gilmour has nothing to offer me, he turned out at very dull guitarist as well (just compare him to the likes of fred frith, robert fripp, steve hillage etc.) Roger it is.
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octopus-4
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 12:04 |
I'm just saying that I see PF as a group, not as a sum of individuals. Posts of this kind are, I think, just to discuss about artists, nothing more. So it seems we are saying the same thing with different words.
This post has the same value as asking Lennon vs. McCartney or Gabriel vs Collins or Latimer vs Bardens or whoever else appears in your mind.
As a PF fan, I want to remark that Wright's contribution to the ensemble is usually underestimated. This is why The Final Cut appears so poor compared to the rest of their discography, even if taken alone is a great album.
In terms of skill we can discuss about Gilmour vs Fripp, but neither Fripp or Hillage have ever been able to give me the same sensations that I get from Gilmour. It doesn't matter how many notes you play in a second. What matters is that they are the right ones. (Hillage is in my top ten but Latimer comes just after Gilmour).
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Paravion
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 12:17 |
Latimer and gilmour are probably the two most boring guitarist I can think of and say that I've listened a lot to..
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lazland
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 12:53 |
Paravion wrote:
Latimer and gilmour are probably the two most boring guitarist I can think of and say that I've listened a lot to.. |
I'm sorry - you are entitled to your opinion, but, really. Latimer & Gilmour can be accused of many things (my admiration for Waters is unbounded, and I felt the band came to an end when he left), but being boring is absolutely one thing neither of them can be accused of.
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Paravion
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 13:04 |
just to clarify - I'm not talking about their personalities (don't assume you are either). But I'm pretty sure that I find their guitar playing pretty boring.
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lazland
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 13:19 |
No, I wasn't talking about their personalities either, and didn't assume you were.
Both of them have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up when they play. Boring they ain't.
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moshkito
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Posted: May 04 2010 at 13:40 |
As a matter of fact, the guitar player on this album is Jeff Beck. And even though on some songs the guitar really sounds cool, there are other in which I think Gilmour could have taken to another level. For me, What God Wants part 3 could have used some more Gilmour-ish guitars. It's a miracle, on the other hand, sounds really cool and I don't think Gilmour could have done much better (I guess it just wouldn't have worked as well with hem). Other songs I don't really bother to remember also might have been much more interesting had the rest of Pink Floyd helped. |
Hmmm ... I would NOT have swapped Jeff Beck for David Gilmour ... no way in heck.
But it tells you that Roger likes a guitarist that can let go and open up the song in an entirely different way ... in my book, these days, David is too stuck doing the same thing all over again to be able to do something new. And Roger, well, he's probably broke and needs new maids on his 10 different villas, so he might as well tour the Wall again!
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