Earlier American Presidents

From an American and also British point of view Franklin D,Roosevelt was the most important President in the list -  the Great Depression devasted the whole western world, Roosevelt's "New Deal" policies brought in many social and economic benefits for the US before involvement  in supporting  the Allies during WW II.

Tuzvihar wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Why was FDR a bad president? I'm curious.  Roosvelt sold us to the Soviets. And he was an insolent liar too. During the elections when he wanted to gain the votes of Polish immigrants he posed for a picture with a map of Poland in its pre-II-world-war borders in the background indicating he would defend them in that shape while the Big Three had already decided otherwise (and he kept it secret because of the elections)!

Wasn't Churchill who led most of the negociations of the European Cake Sharing between UK/USA and URSS?
I remember having read in my high school history book an extract of Churchill's auto-biography in which he confessed having decided of the fate of Europe in a very short chit-chat with the moustache-man: they only needed 15 minutes, a map and one red pencil to say which countries would belong to the "West" or the "East".
Moreover, that wouldn't make him a bad AMERICAN president. Otherwise, you really must enjoy the French leaders.

harmonium.ro wrote: Why was FDR a bad president? I'm curious.

"Acquired" is a nice way to put it. 

Equality 7-2521 wrote: "Acquired" is a nice way to put it.

You get spoils when you back the winning side in a war. Plus, we paid them cash.

Glad to see that FDR has pulled ahead in the vote.  Obviously, he's not only the best president of those listed, but the best president of the 20th century.  One thing that the libertarians among us (and to some degree I have libertarian leanings) is that sometimes is necessary for the government to step in and take control of the economy and do what must be done in order to save the country.  That's exactly what he did, and anyone who thinks he is not a great man is deluded by their hatred of government.  Surprisingly, those people who so hate the government pumping money into the economy and helping the poor save their homes and feeding themselves have no problems when the government give multi-billion dollar bailouts to large corporations allowing their upper management to give themselves huge bonuses. 

The Doctor wrote: Glad to see that FDR has pulled ahead in the vote.  Obviously, he's not only the best president of those listed, but the best president of the 20th century.  One thing that the libertarians among us (and to some degree I have libertarian leanings) is that sometimes is necessary for the government to step in and take control of the economy and do what must be done in order to save the country.  That's exactly what he did, and anyone who thinks he is not a great man is deluded by their hatred of government.  Surprisingly, those people who so hate the government pumping money into the economy and helping the poor save their homes and feeding themselves have no problems when the government give multi-billion dollar bailouts to large corporations allowing their upper management to give themselves huge bonuses.

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - December 15 2009 at 16:01

Equality 7-2521 wrote: omri wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Why was FDR a bad president? I'm curious.  First off he disgustingly forced 120,000 Americans of Japanese descent into internment camps during WWII. One of the worst moments of American history that is somehow looked over because of the love affair people have with FDR and WWII as a beautiful war.  The biggest reason though is that he pushed New Deal policies on this country, an expansion of the role of the modern president, that prolonged the depression, where incredibly unconstitutional, and set the precedent for massive government debt and intervention that lasts until this day. Besides these economics policies being just plain wrong in a classic confusing of cause and effect, they struck at nearly all of the fundamental freedoms the country was founded on.  It gets even worse when you go into the details of how relief funds were directed to areas not based on need, but based on political idealogy, essentially plunging Americans into debt to buy off voters to ensure his (re-re-re-re)-)re-re-election   I can't leave this one without an answer. First, WWII was horible. none of us have a love afair with it. The thing is, it was the only war ever that was right against wrong and FDR understood it much before most Americans who were happy to stay away from it. Without his policy of lending the UK weapon (long before Pearl Harbour) the nazis would have won that war and probably some of us have never been born (myself included). Second, FDR understood that the market is not god and in emergency situation the state should act and that's how USA got out of the 1929 crisis. Just a year ago another flaw of the market (and not enough state involvment and regulation) created another crisis to show again that pure capitalism and greed is self defeating. One has to be a blind believer to claim else nowadays. Sorry for being rude but I felt those words should be said. To your first point, thanks for proving my statement. Clearly nobody is in love with that war. The only war ever that was right against wrong. A war that had to be fought, and be fought just the way it was, atomic bombings of Japan, fire-bombings of Dresden, all of that was so glorious, the greatest generation.  Secondly, not only did FDR not understand that notion, because the notion is false, but as I said he used the situation to further himself politically and not to help those in need. He wanted to be a dictator and damn well almost was. The list of unconstitutional offenses he racked up must be several volumes long.  It's funny how pure capitalism is doomed to fail, but pure capitalism hasn't existed in this country, and the further we stray to a hybrid market system, the more tumultuous the economy becomes. Maybe you should look at central agencies manipulating the market, like the Federal Reserve, instead of blindly accepting those things as sacrosanct establishments.

 

manofmystery wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: omri wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Why was FDR a bad president? I'm curious.  First off he disgustingly forced 120,000 Americans of Japanese descent into internment camps during WWII. One of the worst moments of American history that is somehow looked over because of the love affair people have with FDR and WWII as a beautiful war.  The biggest reason though is that he pushed New Deal policies on this country, an expansion of the role of the modern president, that prolonged the depression, where incredibly unconstitutional, and set the precedent for massive government debt and intervention that lasts until this day. Besides these economics policies being just plain wrong in a classic confusing of cause and effect, they struck at nearly all of the fundamental freedoms the country was founded on.  It gets even worse when you go into the details of how relief funds were directed to areas not based on need, but based on political idealogy, essentially plunging Americans into debt to buy off voters to ensure his (re-re-re-re)-)re-re-election   Send me money and I'll be happy to send you something I'll call my book  I can't leave this one without an answer. First, WWII was horible. none of us have a love afair with it. The thing is, it was the only war ever that was right against wrong and FDR understood it much before most Americans who were happy to stay away from it. Without his policy of lending the UK weapon (long before Pearl Harbour) the nazis would have won that war and probably some of us have never been born (myself included). Second, FDR understood that the market is not god and in emergency situation the state should act and that's how USA got out of the 1929 crisis. Just a year ago another flaw of the market (and not enough state involvment and regulation) created another crisis to show again that pure capitalism and greed is self defeating. One has to be a blind believer to claim else nowadays. Sorry for being rude but I felt those words should be said. To your first point, thanks for proving my statement. Clearly nobody is in love with that war. The only war ever that was right against wrong. A war that had to be fought, and be fought just the way it was, atomic bombings of Japan, fire-bombings of Dresden, all of that was so glorious, the greatest generation.  Secondly, not only did FDR not understand that notion, because the notion is false, but as I said he used the situation to further himself politically and not to help those in need. He wanted to be a dictator and damn well almost was. The list of unconstitutional offenses he racked up must be several volumes long.  It's funny how pure capitalism is doomed to fail, but pure capitalism hasn't existed in this country, and the further we stray to a hybrid market system, the more tumultuous the economy becomes. Maybe you should look at central agencies manipulating the market, like the Federal Reserve, instead of blindly accepting those things as sacrosanct establishments.    Seriously, where can I buy your book?

Equality 7-2521 wrote: omri wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: omri wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Why was FDR a bad president? I'm curious.  First off he disgustingly forced 120,000 Americans of Japanese descent into internment camps during WWII. One of the worst moments of American history that is somehow looked over because of the love affair people have with FDR and WWII as a beautiful war.  The biggest reason though is that he pushed New Deal policies on this country, an expansion of the role of the modern president, that prolonged the depression, where incredibly unconstitutional, and set the precedent for massive government debt and intervention that lasts until this day. Besides these economics policies being just plain wrong in a classic confusing of cause and effect, they struck at nearly all of the fundamental freedoms the country was founded on.  It gets even worse when you go into the details of how relief funds were directed to areas not based on need, but based on political idealogy, essentially plunging Americans into debt to buy off voters to ensure his (re-re-re-re)-)re-re-election   I can't leave this one without an answer. First, WWII was horible. none of us have a love afair with it. The thing is, it was the only war ever that was right against wrong and FDR understood it much before most Americans who were happy to stay away from it. Without his policy of lending the UK weapon (long before Pearl Harbour) the nazis would have won that war and probably some of us have never been born (myself included). Second, FDR understood that the market is not god and in emergency situation the state should act and that's how USA got out of the 1929 crisis. Just a year ago another flaw of the market (and not enough state involvment and regulation) created another crisis to show again that pure capitalism and greed is self defeating. One has to be a blind believer to claim else nowadays. Sorry for being rude but I felt those words should be said. To your first point, thanks for proving my statement. Clearly nobody is in love with that war. The only war ever that was right against wrong. A war that had to be fought, and be fought just the way it was, atomic bombings of Japan, fire-bombings of Dresden, all of that was so glorious, the greatest generation.  Secondly, not only did FDR not understand that notion, because the notion is false, but as I said he used the situation to further himself politically and not to help those in need. He wanted to be a dictator and damn well almost was. The list of unconstitutional offenses he racked up must be several volumes long.  It's funny how pure capitalism is doomed to fail, but pure capitalism hasn't existed in this country, and the further we stray to a hybrid market system, the more tumultuous the economy becomes. Maybe you should look at central agencies manipulating the market, like the Federal Reserve, instead of blindly accepting those things as sacrosanct establishments.    If I remember right (and I do) atomic bombs on Japan were thrown by Truman after FDR passed away. More than that, when talking about these bombs, the bombing of Dresden and so on we should all remember the bombing of England, the gehtos and the killing camps. War is never humanic but remembering only the evil one side did and "forgeting" the evil of the other side (which were far more barbaric) may lead us to conclusions about you that you will not like. Can nobody on this forum read? I very clearly said those things in response to you claiming there isn't a love affair with WWII. They're made as points of horrible things the Allies did in a war that was supposedly pure good against pure evil (because that Stalin guy on our side was just a peach).  Thank you for again proving my point. Please read more carefully what I say in the future.