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AgentSpork View Drop Down
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Points: 23 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2009 at 19:07
Well, Porcupine Tree and Dream Theater do have similarities in that their lyrical content often ranges from silly to downright terrible, but for completely different reasons. Other than that, I don't think either band's music is really all that comparable. You have one band that prefers layered guitar and vocals to make songs with a lot of depth and emotion, and pit that against another band that relies entirely on technical skill and fast playing as its primary songwriting mechanism. In addition, one band creates their music in a vacuum and doesn't really take into consideration much what the fans want, whereas the other band has spent the last decade providing fan service. Just saying.
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Points: 203 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2009 at 22:39
I could spend hours trying to think of an answer, and still not get anywhere.  I love them both
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2009 at 23:46
Porcupine Tree
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Kashmir75 View Drop Down
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Points: 1029 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 00:40
I'm the OP, and I started this thread not because I think the bands are all that similar, but because they are two of the more popular prog bands these days. The 'poster boys', if you will.

DT comes in for a lot of flak around this site. I like them, personally. And PT are one of my favourite bands ever. 
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Kashmir75 View Drop Down
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Points: 1029 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 00:42
Originally posted by AgentSpork AgentSpork wrote:

Well, Porcupine Tree and Dream Theater do have similarities in that their lyrical content often ranges from silly to downright terrible, but for completely different reasons. Other than that, I don't think either band's music is really all that comparable. You have one band that prefers layered guitar and vocals to make songs with a lot of depth and emotion, and pit that against another band that relies entirely on technical skill and fast playing as its primary songwriting mechanism. In addition, one band creates their music in a vacuum and doesn't really take into consideration much what the fans want, whereas the other band has spent the last decade providing fan service. Just saying.

I'm curious. Which of these has offered 'fan service' over the last decade, I wonder? PT don't seem to care much what people's expectations are. They just make the music they want to. And I applaud them for that. DT polarise their fans more and more with each release, so I don't think they listen too much to the fans either. And they shouldn't. Listening to the fans: big mistake. 
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Points: 1029 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 01:05
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

I'm not sure how you compare these groups, as they are nothing alike.  However, it is worth pointing out that Mike Portnoy loves PTree, but Steven Wilson doesn't much care for Dream Theater.  Of course, my impression is that I'd much rather hang out with Portnoy than Wilson, as Wilson strikes me as an arrogant sort.

If we are comparing lyrics, PTree by an incredibly wide margin.  If we are comparing music, I'd say I prefer PTree, though DT certainly have the edge in terms of technique and instrumental skill.  But PTree just write better songs, better melodies, and have much more palatable vocals for my taste.  Though to be fair, neither bands vocals are all that great to my ears.





SW can't dislike DT all that much, because he agreed to do a guest spot on 2007's Systematic Chaos album, and PT have toured with DT before. I think he's on good terms with Portnoy. 

I agree that PT have better lyrics and melodies. DT obviously outdo them in technical virtuosity, but they need to know when to cut it back sometimes.
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Points: 28772 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 01:09
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Porcupine Tree.

PT is so much more diverse than DT stylistically. The one thing I can't stand about Dream Theater is that I can't stand about 95% of their songwriting, which jumps up to 99% after Kevin Moore left.
Porcupine Tree are brilliant as technical musicians, and I love nearly everything they've written and released.

That is obviously just personal taste though; I'm not straight up saying PT is better, I'm saying they're what I'm looking for in a prog band.


Essentially this, except I don't love nearly everything they've written/released, I think it's pretty good though.  Neither band is quite what I'm looking for, but PT gets closer.
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Points: 23 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 13:23
Originally posted by Kashmir75 Kashmir75 wrote:

I'm curious. Which of these has offered 'fan service' over the last decade, I wonder? PT don't seem to care much what people's expectations are. They just make the music they want to. And I applaud them for that. DT polarise their fans more and more with each release, so I don't think they listen too much to the fans either. And they shouldn't. Listening to the fans: big mistake. 


Well, I could certainly be wrong, but that's just from my own personal observation. Dream Theater doesn't seem to have done much in regards to advancing their sound in the last few years (aside from perhaps making their influences more and more evident with each album). Not to mention Train of Thought, an album designed almost entirely around fan response to their heavier songs during live performances.
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 14:39
Originally posted by AgentSpork AgentSpork wrote:

Originally posted by Kashmir75 Kashmir75 wrote:

I'm curious. Which of these has offered 'fan service' over the last decade, I wonder? PT don't seem to care much what people's expectations are. They just make the music they want to. And I applaud them for that. DT polarise their fans more and more with each release, so I don't think they listen too much to the fans either. And they shouldn't. Listening to the fans: big mistake. 


Well, I could certainly be wrong, but that's just from my own personal observation. Dream Theater doesn't seem to have done much in regards to advancing their sound in the last few years (aside from perhaps making their influences more and more evident with each album). Not to mention Train of Thought, an album designed almost entirely around fan response to their heavier songs during live performances.
 
Well... DT members have always estated that they don't want to betray their fan base by doing something too different as most of the 70's prog bands did, so they stick with their trademark, which is technically sofisticated skill but changing the sound and style.. the funny thing is that for some, if they sound too electronic or soft as in Octavarium, then people start saying they are stealing or some stupid thing like that... They have evolve a lot, and I think "Panic Attack", "I Walk beside You", "Prophets of War", "These Walls" and "Forsaken" are great, as well as the whole Six Degrees, in which the experiment a lot and that's what people are complaining in those albums...
 
For what I've heard from PT, they have been doing the same... their only evolution is using a heavier sound in the last like 4 albums right...??? what evolution is there...??? really...
 
 
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Anthony View Drop Down
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Points: 774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 19:11
Of course Dream Theater is the better band. Porcupine Tree is just boring crap.
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Points: 23 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 19:41
Quote For what I've heard from PT, they have been doing the same... their only evolution is using a heavier sound in the last like 4 albums right...??? what evolution is there...??? really...


Well, it's divided into segments really. There's the earlier psychedelic period (Up the Downstair, The Sky Moves Sideways, and Signify), the more straightforward pop-friendly *gasp* approach midway (Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun), the heavier period where they started incorporating metal into their music (In Absentia, Deadwing, Fear of a Blank Planet). As for The Incident... well, I haven't really got much to say about this album.

Dream Theater, to me, has been going downhill ever since Jordan Rudess joined the band. Personally I feel like Scenes From a Memory was just some kind of magical fluke, as there's not a whole lot of his little keyboard cheesefests present on that album. It just kind of exploded when Six Degrees came out and Rudess decided that keyboards would make a perfect replacement (not) for orchestral arrangements. Not trying to be a complete troll, there are quite a few enjoyable songs on DT's newer albums, but personally I haven't found a whole lot of evolution going on. What I have found, however, is an almost endless supply of keyboard and guitar battles going on between Rudess and Petrucci.

I've grown tired of it. At the same time though I'm worried that Porcupine Tree's going down the same road in that they'll be doomed to making melancholic dreary music (as evidenced by The Incident) for the remainder of their career. Luckily Steven Wilson's solo work has shown quite a bit of promise as far as new directions go.


Edited by AgentSpork - December 10 2009 at 19:41
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infandous View Drop Down
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Points: 2447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 09:54
Originally posted by Kashmir75 Kashmir75 wrote:

Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

I'm not sure how you compare these groups, as they are nothing alike.  However, it is worth pointing out that Mike Portnoy loves PTree, but Steven Wilson doesn't much care for Dream Theater.  Of course, my impression is that I'd much rather hang out with Portnoy than Wilson, as Wilson strikes me as an arrogant sort.

If we are comparing lyrics, PTree by an incredibly wide margin.  If we are comparing music, I'd say I prefer PTree, though DT certainly have the edge in terms of technique and instrumental skill.  But PTree just write better songs, better melodies, and have much more palatable vocals for my taste.  Though to be fair, neither bands vocals are all that great to my ears.





SW can't dislike DT all that much, because he agreed to do a guest spot on 2007's Systematic Chaos album, and PT have toured with DT before. I think he's on good terms with Portnoy. 

I agree that PT have better lyrics and melodies. DT obviously outdo them in technical virtuosity, but they need to know when to cut it back sometimes.



Well, I didn't say he disliked them personally.  Just their music.  He has stated this in interviews. He respects them as skilled musicians, but their music doesn't do anything for him (I'm paraphrasing here, as I don't remember his exact words, but that was the gist of it).  I think he and Portnoy get along fine, as Portnoy loves PTree music.

I agree about DT.  But that is what they do.  I can enjoy it for what it is, when I'm in the mood.  Though I must admit that the consistency of modern prog bands does make me think that the early prog bands and their attempts to change their sound and stay relevant, were far more progressive (even if the results didn't appeal to me).






Edited by infandous - December 11 2009 at 09:55
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Points: 210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 10:26
I detest Dream Theater post-Moore with every last bit of my being.  Thus, I say Porcupine Tree.
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Points: 1029 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 18:58
PT have tonnes of evolution in their sound. There is a big difference between even On The Sunday of Life and the second disc. SW dropped the little pop ditties (Jupiter Island, Linton Samuel Dawson) by the time of Up The Downstair. 

Signify was the start of the song-based, rather than soundscape, approach, arguably. Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun were more pop-inflected (with hints of the metal that was to come, on Tinto Brass and Russia on Ice). Yeah, there maybe isn't much difference between the sound of In Absentia, Deadwing, and FOABP. But I think they did try some new things in The Incident (electronica influences on some tracks, like the title track). How can anyone say FOABP and The Incident have the same sound? To me, they went in a totally different direction on the new album. 

I think PT continue to evolve with each album, like Radiohead. PT probably haven't even finished evolving yet. Their next one could be something totally different, for all we know. Remember the shock when we went from Signify to Stupid Dream in a couple of years?
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Points: 21 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2009 at 15:35
DT's been lacking creativity for a while now, even though they have better technical-virtuosos-musicians, PT's music take me somewhere DT's never will..so, go Porcupine!Thumbs Up
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Points: 114 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2009 at 02:10
Just for precision's sake, SW did appear of Systematic Chaos, but his contribution consisted of apologizing for disliking DT's music (every guest had to apologize for something, that was the concept). Which is quite a clear message about: a) SW's opinion of DT's music; b) the fact that DT and SW are friends; c) both being able to be iroinc about one's opinion of each other's.

Besides, SW has absurdly personal taste in music, quite completely distant from the average prog listener, see Meshuggah, so it's not that meaningful if he likes or dislikes DT.
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Points: 62 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2009 at 14:23
Interesting comparison cause there isn't anything related between the 2. You would either get a DT fan bashing on PT or vice-versa..haha.
 
Technically DT are superior but musically its PT. For my tastes its PT all the way, DT never inspired me and gets exhausting to my ears unfortunately.
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Points: 17 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2009 at 14:33
Porcupine Tree have a great groove, Dream Theater however do not. You've gotta have a groove in my opinion. 
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Points: 4515 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2009 at 17:53
Two bands that couldn't be on more opposite sides of progressive rock. Porcupine Tree is all about substance, ideas and song writing ; Dream Theatre is about form, style and musicianship.

That doesn't mean one can't like both bands of course, but PT is the one that makes my heart beat faster. DT only rarely.


Edited by Bonnek - December 18 2009 at 08:47
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Points: 3083 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2009 at 18:47
Both have made their own respective big impact on prog music. Dream Theater is the more important band and their best albums are better than Porcupine Tree's best albums. Porcupine Tree has definitely been the better band since the turn of the century, and I don't think any of Dream Theater's songs have matched the power of "Trains" and a handful of other songs. Plus Porcupine Tree do a better job in the production department. So I guess they're about equal overall.
 
These days, though, I don't find either of them to be doing anything that really warrants a lot of hype or praise.
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