The Evolution and Spirituality Thread

Well this is an area where I think there is still alot to be learned. But the I think the idea of self-organizing systems is something that needs to seep in to culture. Life didn't happen by complete random chance, there are natural laws that promote organization, and these almost always involve multiple interactions of subcomponents. So things are random, and then a more complex stability point is found. The activity of the system is no longer random. From there additional complexity can occur, at a rate that is statistically impossible without the organizing properties of the equilibrium points.

Edited by Negoba - September 29 2009 at 09:57

James wrote: One thing that was made clear to me though is that it's once and fall made me definitely convinced there is no God of any kind.

Negoba wrote: Well this is an area where I think there is still alot to be learned. But the I think the idea of self-organizing systems is something that needs to seep in to culture. Life didn't happen by complete random chance, there are natural laws that promote organization, and these almost always involve multiple interactions of subcomponents. So things are random, and then a more complex stability point is found. The activity of the system is no longer random. From there additional complexity can occur, at a rate that is statistically impossible without the organizing properties of the equilibrium points.   I know it's convoluted but it is a critical point in thinking about our origins.     Again, though, these things neither support nor refute the existence of God.

As I said above; no, it doesn't prove or refute anything in real terms.  I honestly do not think they will ever be able to prove or refute the existence/non-existence of God.  If they did, people would still doubt it and refuse to believe it.

However, the whole concept convinced me more than ever of what I know to be true.

I wish I could understand a lot of this more easily and also get my point across better.  It is not just due to what I said in my previous message that makes me think that way.  I am not scientifically minded, so I cannot really explain it as I'd like to.

^ I wish the forum would allow Java applets - a double pendulum simulation is even more fascinating than that simple animation http://www.myphysicslab.com/dbl_pendulum.html 

Erm...I've always been haunted by this scenario:

Would a deity bestow the requisite tools upon mankind to be able to confirm his own existence using purely rational and scientific methods alone ? Otherwise, why kneel in supplication before the CEO of Celestial Autos when you can build another car yourself ?

So, even if our scientific efforts refuted the existence of a deity (by that I mean the hypothesis is not supported by the available data) this would not remove entirely the possibility of an erm...cosmic architect i.e. could there be some data that is not observable as beyond our human sensory/cognitive perception and designed that way ?) Ain't this a bit like Sherlock Holmes introducing himself to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in the street ? (My head melts when I try to solve this )

Why would the old critter rope off parts of his creation ? (To perpetuate belief only by free-will ? Insert can of worms here)

Ergo, was God stingy with the grey matter ? (Clearly parsimonious in my case )

ExittheLemming wrote: Erm...I've always been haunted by this scenario: Would a deity bestow the requisite tools upon mankind to be able to confirm his own existence using purely rational and scientific methods alone ? Otherwise, why kneel in supplication before the CEO of Celestial Autos when you can build another car yourself ?    So, even if our scientific efforts refuted the existence of a deity (by that I mean the hypothesis is not supported by the available data) this would not remove entirely the possibility of an erm...cosmic architect i.e. could there be some data that is not observable as beyond our human sensory/cognitive perception and designed that way ?) Ain't this a bit like Sherlock Holmes introducing himself to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in the street ? (My head melts when I try to solve this ) Why would the old critter rope off parts of his creation ? (To perpetuate belief only by free-will ? Insert can of worms here) Ergo, was God stingy with the grey matter ? (Clearly parsimonious in my case )