The Atheist - Agnostic - Non religious thread

Hi Jampa,

Edited by el dingo - December 07 2009 at 15:05

jampa17 wrote: el dingo wrote: Llucmajor is a working town in the middle of Mallorca about half an hour walk from me when I'm there with a very large Catholic Church (dedicated to St Michael), a convent I think named after Saint Bonaventura and also a smaller church. I've been to the large church with my Spanish neighbours a few times and as I say I've thoroughly enjoyed myself. I am so irreligious I can't tell you more than that one service was one Sunday before Navidad with a choir and an entertainment from the children that ended up outside - it was great fun to watch - and the others I've been too were (I guess) standard Sunday communions, one of which began a Fiesta. I'm not used to the ceremonies at all and as i say the colourful nature of everything and the atmosphere were what i enjoyed the most.   Sounds like traditional Catholic celebrations... I really enjoy them a lot, here in my country we have those -deeds from the spanish conquers- and those merged with a more colourful rituals from the Mayas, which evolve into a very creative and unique traditions that are fascinating... Today we have "La Quema del Diablo" which is a very interesting tradition... Like I tell you, this is my favorite research theme, social dynamics are quite impressive, and the rituals in religion are very interesting and enjoying full... if you can, you can come to Guatemala on vacation and enjoy of a lot of these manifestation... we do it all the year... jejeje..

rushfan4 wrote: An interesting article somewhat related to the topic.  Religious nuts in North Carolina are trying to have an elected official removed from office because he doesn't believe in God.  http://portal.wowway.net/news/read.php?id=17660031&ps=1011&srce=news_class&action=2&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_USNWU00L2_UNEWS&page=2

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 11 2009 at 18:26

1. I am the Lord your God
1a. You shall have no other gods before me
1b. You shall not make for yourself an idol
2. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

Well, these don't seem like rules that any modern, secular state would enforce as laws.

3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

Some countries enforce the sunday as a day where you're not allowed to work - in Germany there are many exceptions to the rule though. As an atheist I would theoretically try to fight this law because of its religious motivation, but on the other the concept of having a work free day every 7 days is not so bad, and trying to make it the same day of the week for everyone is nice, too, because it enables people to meet with their friends.

4. Honor your father and mother

Again, not something to be enforced by laws.

5. You shall not murder/kill

Now this is of course a law in any modern society. Although it conflicts with capital punishment, which is still carried out in countries like China, Iran or the USA. And even regardless of capital punishment, many countries make exceptions to the rule, for example in self defense, to prevent criminals from killing other people, or during times of war.

6. You shall not commit adultery

Not a law in civilized countries. Although the USA again stand out there if you will, by their civil laws in relation to marriages and divorces.

7. You shall not steal***

Of course that's a rule of law in most countries.

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

This is a law in most countries, but depends on the situation (whether you lie in private, in public, to the police or as a witness in a trial).

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

That's most definitely not a law in civilized countries.

10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

Not a law.




So ... as far as I see it, only three out of those ten commandments are really reflected by law, and one of those two is not followed through 100%.


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - December 12 2009 at 05:55

^ I know that Sabbath is Saturday - but for Christians the Sunday performs a similar function, and the Friday for Muslims.

I've taken what Dennett says to heart: One of his points is that for him it makes no sense to argue with believers about whether God exists or not. Why? Because they know that there are no good reasons for believing that their God exists. It's therefore pointless to argue about this issue, because the problem lies somewhere else.

To all the believers out there: If you want to give me a Christmas present, watch the video and comment on it ... regardless of your conclusions, it would make me glad. Not because of the satisfaction I might have from knowing that I posted a video and people watched it - but because I think that it's such a good presentation, and Dennett deserves to be heard.

^ Then I really don't understand why you won't watch the presentation. If you already know that Dennett is brilliant in his field, his presentation should be at least enjoyable for you to watch - and maybe it would help to take the discussion in this thread to a different level. Like I tried to explain above, I'm not really interested in your reasons for believing in God as long as they are subjective, and I have no way to verify them for myself. Whenever someone presents some unfalsifiable arguments, it's automatically the end of the discussion.

^ Watch the video or don't ... it's not like you're doing me a favor.

How can a reason be "good" if it requires a leap of faith to accept it? Sorry, but a reason is not "good" just because you say it is. If you like you can watch the video from about 49:00 on, there he talks a bit about religion in general and about typical tricks that religious people - not always intentionally - employ in this kind of discussion.