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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Beatles Indian music as Prog
    Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:34

 I feel the Beatles were certainly progressive when especially George Harrison was working at a sophisticated level of extrapolating Indian scales to the Western setting, something no one else had done in rock music as compared to efforts like the Byrds or the Yardbirds.  "Love You To",  which is certainly derived from classical Indian, "Within You Without You",  "The Inner Light",  and even "Norwegian Wood" follows the raga khamaj avarohana is an  unaltered raga were in the Indo/Prog category.

 One more song " Blue Jay Way,” was conceived on the harmonium but is more significant in that it reveals the depth of Harrison’s understanding of Indian music, as well as his ability to express it in a pop context.  The opening sequence of notes imposes part of the scale from an Indian raga called “Marwa” onto a basic C-major chord. He uses notes that are dissonant in the C-major setting (E-flat and F-sharp), pivoting them around a C-diminished chord. It certainly was not rock ‘n’ roll, and the quality of his work was now to be found in the details-not in the immediate impact. Perhaps this is why this example of Harrison radically pushing the songwriting envelope is rarely discussed in such terms.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:43
I think most people who have any real 'knowledge' of music understand what you are saying...this site did of course by including them in the database..much like the Who, while they didn't do the Indian music thing per se were  foremost in pushing the envelope and may have even topped the Beatles in pushing the songwriting envelop of what would be a staple of prog down the road...  deep meaning lyrics and conceptual ideas in song and albums...bringing the art.. to rock.

 of course you will have the numb-nuts that populate internet forums that think the Beatles (the Who) were overrated or where just a pop (rock) group
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2009 at 19:56
The Beatles were many things...but prog they were not...they may have expanded some musical boundaries...and used different instruments within thier music.....but i still laugh at them being on a prog site.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2009 at 20:15
 I believe today it is called "world Music"? I have grown to appreciate Indian music very much ever since the Beatles started w/ Ravi Shankar.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2009 at 20:20
yep... how many got into him and Indian music because of the Beatles.... in fact it was my gateway into the Hindu faith in the strange way that is life...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2009 at 09:36
Originally posted by visitor2035 visitor2035 wrote:

The Beatles were many things...but prog they were not...they may have expanded some musical boundaries...and used different instruments within thier music.....but i still laugh at them being on a prog site.
 
 

The Beatles did folk rock songs, power pop songs, experimental songs, country, classical electronic, music, and yes progressive rock songs. They did not full progressive rock albums but if you have Seventh Sons on the Indo Prog list then some of the Beatles tracks like "Within You Without You" as Indo/Raga Rock at least the Beatles followed the classical aspects of it. Then why have the Indo/Raga Rock section when George Harrison was the first rock musician who incorporated the classical elements of Indian music and just not the use of drone or sound of a sitar.  

 
I think its as progressive as anything that any rock artists were recording March of 1967.  I think Progarchives should have a separate section for just tracks as well as albums.

 



Edited by Chelsea - March 23 2009 at 09:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2009 at 09:53
The Beatles were the most important progressive band in the rock era, though the sounds they initiated do not fit into the classical idea of "prog" as Genesis or Yes. But they used mellotron, had extended suites, dabbled in anything they could get their hands on. The Beatles and the Moody Blues are the biggest influence on the classic prog sound.
 
Now you must remember that the fifth Beatle, George Martin, was responsible for a massive amount of what made them progressive. That often gets forgotten by the naysayers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2009 at 07:44
Originally posted by visitor2035 visitor2035 wrote:

The Beatles were many things...but prog they were not...they may have expanded some musical boundaries...and used different instruments within thier music.....but i still laugh at them being on a prog site.
You've missed the point as to why they're on this site. You should read the definition of proto-prog  - we're not saying they're a prog band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2009 at 00:16
I'm coming into this discussion late, but I just registered todaySmile.  As for whether or not the Beatles were a prog band, I think they were definitely instrumental (pun intended) for laying the prog foundation.  They were among the first genre mixers (George and his raga-rock were a big part of that, as was George Martin, who I consider the fifth Beatle).  The Beatles were the first band I ever got into (in the late '60's), and from there I discovered Pink Floyd, Genesis, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Soft Machine, Captain Beefheart, etc..  It seemed like a natural progression (pun unintended).  I never lost my love for those bands.  The other day I listened to "Tomorrow Never Knows" on YouTube and read the comments.  You know that a song is truly progressive, not only when it still sounds like it's ahead of its time, but when countless young people listen to it and say they can't believe the song is over forty years old and that current pop music hasn't gotten much farther than it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2009 at 06:11
I completely agree.
"And in the end,
the love you take
is equal to the love you make."
(Paul McCartney - Beatles)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2009 at 06:38
i am also looking for this from a long time ago thank you for sharing your information.yes it is true i agree with you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2009 at 07:13
Originally posted by steveljohn8 steveljohn8 wrote:

i am also looking for this from a long time ago thank you for sharing your information.yes it is true i agree with you.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2009 at 21:11
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by steveljohn8 steveljohn8 wrote:

i am also looking for this from a long time ago thank you for sharing your information.yes it is true i agree with you.
 
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What he said, whatever it was all about....
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 15:17
Hi,
 
Quote ...  The opening sequence of notes imposes part of the scale from an Indian raga called “Marwa” onto a basic C-major chord. He uses notes that are dissonant in the C-major setting (E-flat and F-sharp), pivoting them around a C-diminished chord. It certainly was not rock ‘n’ roll, and the quality of his work was now to be found in the details-not in the immediate impact. ...
 
This shows the reason why we do not accept the validity of experience in music - and specially rock music, and the ones that we call progressive for the wrong reason ... not because they want to create something much bigger than a mere pop song!   .... he simply took a feel, or fingering, that would be used in an instrument that was not of western making, and superimposed it on his guitar ... which makes it sound dissonant, but on a sitar it is not!
 
In the end, if you are trying to describe something so you can learn to play it ... that is one thing, but to apparently discuss it as something that might not be valid in music because Beethoven and Mozart and Tchaivoksly did not use it ... is no right ... and this has been rock music's greatest contribution to history of music ... added an element of "difference" and "experimental" feeling to things ... and sometimes it is not about the notes ... it's about the feel in the music and where it takes you and it seemed right when your finger went here and created what we now call as the dimished-poop chord ...
 
In the end, the Beatles helped create and define what we call "prog" ... and many of its different styles, all of which are about taking away each and every person's desire to do something more with music than just another pop song ... or do something with music that ia valid ... like a Frank Zappa ... but he will never be considered a great American composer and he is one of the best ... specially if you want to talk notes and chords!
 
 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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