The Atheist - Agnostic - Non religious thread

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: ExittheLemming wrote:  Atheists don't give a sh*t about religion. Religious people really should recognise the same courtesy. That's not truth,some atheists are very active, including Dawkins, he has compared Religion with a virus and said that the concept of God is offensive to him....In my case I don't find the concept of Atheism offensive, I just don't share it. More than an atheist he's an anti-theist, he's made of his life a campaign of destroying religion (how tolerant), he tells us what we must think and how we must raise our children as any Evangelist does. He's as annoying and fanatic as the Jehovah Witness who visits your house only to tell you that your religion is crap and you're going to hell if you don't believe as him. The jerk compares Religion with child abuse and says that it's terrible for a child to believe in Santa, believe me the guy is full of hate....We have the right to raise our children in the faith we want and almost every constitution of the world grants us that right. So don't tell me that Atheists don't give a sh¡t about religion. I applaud the atheists who don't believe but respect the beliefs of others, sadly that's not the case of many of them. Iván

jampa17 wrote: Negoba wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: ExittheLemming wrote:  Atheists don't give a sh*t about religion. Religious people really should recognise the same courtesy. That's not truth,some atheists are very active, including Dawkins, he has compared Religion with a virus and said that the concept of God is offensive to him....In my case I don't find the concept of Atheism offensive, I just don't share it. More than an atheist he's an anti-theist, he's made of his life a campaign of destroying religion (how tolerant), he tells us what we must think and how we must raise our children as any Evangelist does. He's as annoying and fanatic as the Jehovah Witness who visits your house only to tell you that your religion is crap and you're going to hell if you don't believe as him. The jerk compares Religion with child abuse and says that it's terrible for a child to believe in Santa, believe me the guy is full of hate....We have the right to raise our children in the faith we want and almost every constitution of the world grants us that right. So don't tell me that Atheists don't give a sh¡t about religion. I applaud the atheists who don't believe but respect the beliefs of others, sadly that's not the case of many of them. Iván   Well said, echoes my feelings almost exactly.   Yes... I agree... but I didn't knew they do the same in other countries as well... I thought it happen only in Latin America...

Forceful and agressive "marketting" by anyone fails to impress me, but I'm not going to get upset about it.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: ExittheLemming wrote:  Atheists don't give a sh*t about religion. Religious people really should recognise the same courtesy. That's not truth,some atheists are very active, including Dawkins, he has compared Religion with a virus and said that the concept of God is offensive to him....In my case I don't find the concept of Atheism offensive, I just don't share it. More than an atheist he's an anti-theist, he's made of his life a campaign of destroying religion (how tolerant), he tells us what we must think and how we must raise our children as any Evangelist does. He's as annoying and fanatic as the Jehovah Witness who visits your house only to tell you that your religion is crap and you're going to hell if you don't believe as him.

You only reveal your own ignorance with posts like this. Dawkins doesn't tell people what to do. If anything, he encourages people to think for themselves.

http://www.intelligencesquared.com/iq2-video/2009/atheism-is-the-new-fundamentalism


BTW: Have you actually read one of his books? Of all of them only one is about religion, the others are about biology.

Iván wrote: The jerk compares Religion with child abuse and says that it's terrible for a child to believe in Santa, believe me the guy is full of hate....We have the right to raise our children in the faith we want and almost every constitution of the world grants us that right.

You're the hateful guy here, insulting someone you've never met.

Iván wrote: So don't tell me that Atheists don't give a sh¡t about religion. I applaud the atheists who don't believe but respect the beliefs of others, sadly that's not the case of many of them. Iván

You applaud the atheists who shut up and accept that religious belief takes precedence over rational thought. You would not object if a religious fanatic said that atheism is bad, but apparently it's big crime for someone to criticise religion. How's that for tolerance?

Borderline cant most of this...When I say atheists don't give a sh*it about religion I don't mean those who make a living undermining other peoples beliefs in books (like Dawkins, who I have never read, and probably never will - but as Negoba has respectfully pointed out - considers to be a 'jerk' )
I mean 'yer average Joe' for the sake of clarity, as the mystics round here appear to presume all 'non-believers' must be slavish disciples of these published 'New Atheists' (what a w**ky appellation that is to be sure) We 'common garden' species of atheist have no beef with those of a spiritual orientation, and will ridicule no-one's beliefs (until such time as ancient scripture, wagging judgemental fingers or smug hippy cosmology gets in our face that is)

The analogy between a thread about killing all the folks from Indiana, I would expect the folks from Indiana to pipe up. etc and that of only vegetarians posting in a meat lovers thread is plain vanilla puerile and not something I would normally identify with its author (Negoba - Do you lobby your local council for the non practising right to use the public ladies toilets ?)
I do respect other people's beliefs but if you cannot see the hideous irony in The Atheist - Agnostic - Non Religious thread being hi-jacked by the bruised sensibilities of those who do not share those perspectives or have anything to contribute apart from chastising those who do, there is nothing anyone can do to help you. (Don't you guys have yer own thread anyway ?)

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: ExittheLemming wrote:  Atheists don't give a sh*t about religion. Religious people really should recognise the same courtesy. That's not truth,some atheists are very active, including Dawkins, he has compared Religion with a virus and said that the concept of God is offensive to him....In my case I don't find the concept of Atheism offensive, I just don't share it. More than an atheist he's an anti-theist, he's made of his life a campaign of destroying religion (how tolerant), he tells us what we must think and how we must raise our children as any Evangelist does. He's as annoying and fanatic as the Jehovah Witness who visits your house only to tell you that your religion is crap and you're going to hell if you don't believe as him. The jerk compares Religion with child abuse and says that it's terrible for a child to believe in Santa, believe me the guy is full of hate....We have the right to raise our children in the faith we want and almost every constitution of the world grants us that right. So don't tell me that Atheists don't give a sh¡t about religion. I applaud the atheists who don't believe but respect the beliefs of others, sadly that's not the case of many of them. Iván

Edited by Kestrel - December 04 2009 at 22:20

Mr ProgFreak wrote: You only reveal your own ignorance with posts like this. Dawkins doesn't tell people what to do. If anything, he encourages people to think for themselves. http://www.intelligencesquared.com/iq2-video/2009/atheism-is-the-new-fundamentalism BTW: Have you actually read one of his books? Of all of them only one is about religion, the others are about biology.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: You only reveal your own ignorance with posts like this. Dawkins doesn't tell people what to do. If anything, he encourages people to think for themselves. http://www.intelligencesquared.com/iq2-video/2009/atheism-is-the-new-fundamentalism BTW: Have you actually read one of his books? Of all of them only one is about religion, the others are about biology.   Before calling me ignorant, please remember that I can support everything I said: 1.- Richard Dawkins has said that Religion is a virus:you can check "Viruses of the Mind by Richard Dawkins (1981), where he step by step compares Religion with a virus and at the end claims that only a triumphant girl who left religion behind, is the model to follow:

I basically agree with this analogy.

Iván wrote: Happily, viruses don't win every time. Many children emerge unscathed from the worst that nuns and mullahs can throw at them. Anthony Kenny's own story has a happy ending. He eventually renounced his orders because he could no longer tolerate the obvious contradictions within Catholic belief, and he is now a highly respected scholar. But one cannot help remarking that it must be a powerful infection indeed that took a man of his wisdom and intelligence --- President of the British Academy, no less --- three decades to fight off. Am I unduly alarmist to fear for the soul of my six-year-old innocent?   http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Dawkins/viruses-of-the-mind.html

Iván wrote:   2.- Richard Dawkins compares Religion with Child abuse, you can read Religion's Real child abuse in which he of course mentions priests who molest kids (as if atheists, Buddhists, Jewishs, etc wouldn't abuse their children) but he says that the message of God is worst than pedophilia:   'What shall we tell the children?' is a superb polemic on how religions abuse the minds of children, by the distinguished psychologist Nicholas Humphrey. It was originally delivered as a lecture in aid of Amnesty International, and has now been reissued as a chapter of his book, The Mind Made Flesh, just published by Oxford University Press. It is also available on the worldwide web and I strongly recommend it. Humphrey argues that, in the same way as Amnesty works tirelessly to free political prisoners the world over, we should work to free the children of the world from the religions which, with parental approval, damage minds too young to understand what is happening to them. He is right, and the same lesson should inform our discussions of the current pedophile brouhaha. Priestly groping of child bodies is disgusting. But it may be less harmful in the long run than priestly subversion of child minds.   http://richarddawkins.net/articles/118

I removed your offensive font size tricks there, mainly because they kept me from reading the text.

Well, in that instance I think it was not wise for him to even to make a comparison between (sexual) child molestation and religion, but in principle I would agree that religion can have a profound influence on a child. The alternative - to encourage the child to decide for herself - seems much more preferable to me. In essence I agree that forcing a religion onto a child is a bad thing, however there is nothing you can do about it than encourage parents to let their children decide.

Iván wrote:   But that's not all, he says that fathers don't have the righht to teach religion to their children:   Do you consider parents forcing children to accept their religion a form of child abuse?JAMES MACDONALD, Bronte, New South Wales Yes. What would you think of parents who forced their children to accept their politics, or their taste in architecture? Have you ever heard anyone speak of a "Leninist child" or a "Postmodernist child"? Of course not. Why, then, do we all go along with "Christian child" and "Muslim child"? Such labelling of children with their parents' religion is child abuse.   http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/richard-dawkins-you-ask-the-questions-special-427003.html

I pretty much answered that one with the previous paragraph.

Iván wrote:   So the JERK is telling us how we should raise our kids, he's authoritarian and as evangelist as any preacher.   3.- In What's Really Offensive, Richard Dawkins not only compares religion with voodoo, but says that a religious person is more likely to commit brutal crimes. http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=16119   So don't tell me he's teaching people how to think, he's taking an active position of ATTACK against religion....What's the difference between him and a preacher saying that it's a sin nopt to believe what he beliefs? NONE   So before calling me ignorant, read what your idol says.

I'm entirely with him on all those accounts. If that makes me a jerk in your eyes - be my guest.

Iván wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: You're the hateful guy here, insulting someone you've never met.   I'm reacting to his insults, has this guy ever met me, or my parents or grandparents to say that we are child abusive? If he insults all of us, we have the right to react, not with hatred, but with the same despise I feel for the fanatic who tells me that if I don't believe in his god, I'm going to hell. Mr ProgFreak wrote: Ivan wrote: I applaud the atheists who don't believe but respect the beliefs of others, sadly that's not the case of many of them. Iván You applaud the atheists who shut up and accept that religious belief takes precedence over rational thought. You would not object if a religious fanatic said that atheism is bad, but apparently it's big crime for someone to criticise religion. How's that for tolerance?   I applaud TOLERANT PEOPLE,even if religion was irrational (what is not), Mr. Dawkins has to respect our right to believe in what we want, he can express his ideas BUT HE MUST TOLERATE WHAT WE BELIEVE, IF NOT, HE'S AS BIGOT AS THE FUNDAMENTALIST FROM THE WESBORO BAPTIST CHURCH WHO CHEERS IN THE BURIAL OF A SOLDIER OR AN INNOCENT GAY KID.   Now, seems you are not reading my posts or ever did, every time I write about religion, I talk about tolerance and loudly express mmy despise for fanatics.   BEFORE ACCUSING ,ME OF PROTECTING FANATICS OR THAT ACCEPTING THAT AHEISMM IS BD, READ WHAT I WRITE, I ALWAYS SAID ALL THE BELIEFS AND DISBELIEFS ARE GOOD, BUT WITH RESPECT FOR THE REST OF THE PEOPLE WHO THINKS DIFFERENT.   If you ask if I'm pissed, yes I am, you call me ignorant when I can support each and every claim I made, and then you accuse me of supporting fanatics, when I have always posted some of the strongest messages against funfdamentalist, called guys as Falwell and Bob Jones, by worst names that I use to call Dawkins,   So please don't attack without reading first.

Now if all that isn't  a knee-jerk reaction, I don't know what is.

You're a fanatic even judging from your style of posting alone. I honestly wouldn't want to meet you in a dark alley at night.

Yeah, you go Iván!

Edited by gottagetintogetout - December 05 2009 at 13:22

Mike lost most of these arguments along time ago. He'll give up with you after awhile.

There's certainly a degree to which that's true.