This year's Helloween thread

BTW: Helloween has not only been discussed twice, since 2005 it has been mentioned repeatedly and never added.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 03 2009 at 20:45

stonebeard wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: some oif this sites have added Grabnd Funk Railroad as a prog Metal band....but not Helloween.   Oh...well then we can therefore disregard anything they have to say about Prog Metal.

Yep, though Heavy Metal was a pretty progressive animated film and they did have a track in that: "Queen Bee".  I preferred the magazine.

The T wrote: ^Sea of tranquility just reviewed the last Marduk album... while a decent norsecore black metal album, it has 0.0000% progressiveness .... That website is the least effective reference....

But was it reviewed as a prog metal album?  Like I said, they don't only cover Prog, nor does PA for that matter.  From the description I gave it's said to be a "Web zine with news and reviews of heavy metal, progressive metal, and progressive rock."

Anyway, as you say, it's up to the admins to decide if they think it fits the Prog Related parameters sufficiently (I never did get a handle on the Prog Related category). Incidentally, I've wondered if Prog Related is a strictly non-prog category, as some people say, if anything having any Prog merits should be allowed there. ;)


Edited by Logan - November 03 2009 at 20:52

Well, just to end, we must go to the Prog Related parameters:

King By-Tor wrote: Anyone who says that The Legacy is not a progressive metal album is purely insane. Purely.

^I am insane. Though no psychiatrist has ever confirmed it..

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: King By-Tor wrote: Anyone who says that The Legacy is not a progressive metal album is purely insane. Purely. Then why doesn't Prog Metal Team adds them? Are all of them insane? Iván

Of course.

I really didn't want my first post to be on an "isn't this prog?" thread, but I couldn't resist this post by the King. Below the quote are 100% my personal opinions based on my personal listening experience. If you get the feeling that I'm talking big, that's only because I'm talking to myself. None of the below are rules or anything like that whatsoever, and absolutely no offense intended. I've just tried to draw a prog-related picture of Helloween as I see it.
Just FYI, so that you will know what I mean when I say something vague: The ideal type of a progressive band in my own little prog world is Van der Graaf Generator, and naturally the one feature I value the most in any progressive effort is sincerity.

King By-Tor wrote: Anyone who says that The Legacy is not a progressive metal album is purely insane.

I could have agreed, had the album been purely the king for a thousand years. Helloween is one of my all time favourite bands, and of course I too get some proggy feel from them every now and then. And as for the Legacy album, they've come as close as they can to prog. But even in that album, and actually in the entire catalog of Helloween, only one song, "The King for a 1000 Years" qualifies as progressive. Being in total denial of the genre called prog-metal and detesting each and every band named therein, I even think that that one song is the one and only progressive metal song ever made--though nothing magnificent.

Still, that doesn't make Helloween a prog or even related band. Early Helloween seems to have tried hard to give progressive output, as evident in the "epic" shots in the Keeper duo. But both "Keeper of the Seven Keys" and "Halloween" were...well...lame. Both songs had proggy moments, but overall both were overlong, poorly composed mixtures of various melodies and rhythms that didn't really blend at all. And other than those two wannabe-prog epic failures, nothing in pre-2005 Helloween connects them to progressive rock, save for hints of prog influences here and there.

Since Deris came, it appeared that the band gave up trying (posing?) to be prog and rather focused on making better and more serious power metal, which in turn brought them closer to prog with every new album: better thought-of compositions, only slightly complex but pretty solid song structures, meaningful lyrics in effort to deal with significant issues, etc. However, since we came to see their latest output "Gambling with the Devil", it has appeared that the Legacy was the best that they can ever get: One progressive metal song in 13 (I don't see "Occasion Avenue" as another epic failure--indeed I revealed to last.fm that I loved the song, but it's not much prog either, at least nothing in comparison to the K4a1000Y, so it doesn't count for me).

On the other hand, of course, there is this weak probability that the next album by Helloween will feature several progressive songs and good non-prog power metal songs with numerous proggy moments. In that case, I suppose the admins too will start considering them as prog-related. And I truly wish for it, for I feel that the band has the potential to go prog but somehow always get stuck midway.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Have checked several Prog sites Progressive Ears (Not included) GEPR (Not included) Proggnosis (Not included) Progressor (Not included) Please, aren't we insisting too much when all the people who REALLY know about them makes no Prog connection? Iván

You're actually wrong on Progressive Ears:

   Helloween


From what I know of the band they are power metal through and through, so based on my knowledge I'd say they should not be in here.

Still, interesting to see Prog Ears have them listed as prog metal.

Also interesting. Vitaly Menshikov, who runs the Progressor site, is of the opinion that 2, arguably 3, of Helloween's albums can be classified as prog metal. With "Keeper of the Seven Keys Part II" as the best among those.

Windhawk wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Have checked several Prog sites Progressive Ears (Not included) GEPR (Not included) Proggnosis (Not included) Progressor (Not included) Please, aren't we insisting too much when all the people who REALLY know about them makes no Prog connection? Iván    You're actually wrong on Progressive Ears:    Helloween From what I know of the band they are power metal through and through, so based on my knowledge I'd say they should not be in here. Still, interesting to see Prog Ears have them listed as prog metal.