Capital Punishment: For or Against?

Ok, I'll bite.

My view on this matter is quite simple really - as I outlined in my first post. In short, I cannot support the state to execute criminals because for me:

1. I cannot 100% trust the Police, the Judiciary and other relevant legal avenues to ensure that the criminal in question deserves to die, or cannot be rehabilitated or put to use in a penal system.

2. I cannot endorse murder for murder. Such backwards thinking really does not belong in a modern society. This means that although a criminal may murder another person, it is not any better to kill them for the sake of nominal justice. I would much rather see them locked up, working in prison, and at least given the opportunity to do something useful.

3. In cases where a murderer is released, and then murders again, it is quite clear that they cannot be rehabilitated, and execution may be a serious option. Again this would depend to the effectiveness of the judiciary as to whether the death penalty would be permissible. Otherwise, hard manual labour should be the only option. And yes, while such a repeat murder may have been prevented by the death penalty, or life internment - I'm no mind reader, and nor are you.

4. Don't get me wrong, I beleive that the most serious crimes should be punished with near Gulag-esque work conditions. No comforts, bare essentials, hard work, time to reflect.

5. To those who moan about the cost of housing inmates. Seriously, I would rather pay my taxes to house them in an effective penal institution than resort to killing people. And I also see a trend, especially in the US, where many death row inmates live onwards of 5-20 years on the row. Cost effective my ****.

6. Haven't us humans killed enough of our own kind already?

7. In a personal situation where one of my family or friends was murdered/raped/violently attacked etc, I would like nothing more than to make the perpetrator suffer personally. But I know that revenge based emotions only lead to personal anarchy, and the last thing I would want is a situation where a literal interpretation of an 'eye for an eye' becomes normalised.


Edited by Any Colour You Like - November 28 2009 at 22:09

jammun wrote: I'd be willing to take execution off the table as an option if life in prison = life in prison (no parole).  It happens again and again that someone who initially commits one of these violent crimes is later released only to pick up right where they he or she left off.  This happens constantly in my area.  As mentioned the three strikes model seems to work pretty well, since by that point we've ample evidence that the individual either cannot or will not be rehabilitated, and that he or she just doesn't give a rip for societal norms.

If this happens constantly in your area then isn't there something fundamentally wrong with your area? I don't know whether where you live is higher or lower than the USA national average for murder but when that average is 2 to 3 times that of Europe, Canada or Australia it would suggest that Capital Punishment does not address the issue of why more people kill in the USA than in any comparible country and when some of those killers would kill again if released goes on to suggest that the penal system is also failing.

There's no "sociopaths"... It's called antisocial personality disorder. And yes, pretty much it's impossible to rehabilitate. People with such disorder rarely respond to therapy and are pretty much always violent. People like that populate the prisons and have to be kept away from society. And in some cases I even agree with that violent dog-sociopath analogy...

jammun wrote: I would agree that there is something fundamentally flawed with the criminal justice system here in the U.S.  I also don't know why we have much higher crime rates.  Unfortunately, my area is no better nor worse than any other major city in the U.S.    Now just this morning, a bit south of here, four cops sitting in a coffee shop getting ready to start their shifts were ambushed and gunned down.  All four dead.      Whoever is responsible will eventually be found.  I'd argue that the person(s) does not deserve even a chance at rehabilitation.  Put 'em away for all time, one way or another (true life sentence or execution).

I know why we have a higher crime rate, I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you. 

Seriously, though I personally believe it is more about easy access to weapons, plain and simple.  It provides a nut case with an easier means to do mayhem.  Yet you can't underestimate the ability of people to do harm with unconventional weapons, McVeigh, Kazinsky, etc. for example. 


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 30 2009 at 12:30

Now back to reality:

Four cops gunned down today.  Let's look at the toll:

Sergeant, age 39.  He is survived by a wife, two daughters and a son.

Officer, age 37. He is survived by a former wife and a daughter.

Officer, age 40. She is survived by her husband and two children.

Officer age 42. He is survived by a wife and three children.

jammun wrote: Now back to reality: Four cops gunned down today.  Let's look at the toll: Sergeant, age 39.  He is survived by a wife, two daughters and a son. Officer, age 37. He is survived by a former wife and a daughter. Officer, age 40. She is survived by her husband and two children. Officer age 42. He is survived by a wife and three children. Now explain to me why the person who is responsible deserves anything, even his life.

 

No need to make sense of it.  I don't care about his reason or his sob story.   I'd volunteer to flip that switch, though I don't know if they have permanent rehabilitation in that state.  Hopefully they do. 

Edited by Finnforest - November 30 2009 at 14:44

Then again... the discussion is... this guy who murdered 4 guys deserves to live? No, at least not in this planet, and society needs to be protected. Again, he deserves to die -an ugly death if you ask me- not just because he put in danger the life of whoever he lives close from, but because he have to pay 4 murders and that's it... imagine that the wives and kids of this officers will pay the long life of this criminal in jail... that's stupid... so, capital punishment is what we need and that's it... later I will speak about criminal rates per country... maybe there's a lot to talk about...

dude... you need to research your sources... in Guatemala cannot be erradicated the native americans because they are the 60% of population and most of the rest 40% have native roots... so, I think you should check who you are reading... that's the lie that the rebels sold during the civil war to get money from european countries who thought they were fighting for the rights of the poor... I can tell you because is my history and my country and I can stand to whatever you believe that this lie is one thing that really makes this country to suffer... wonder where the rebels are since the peace sign...?? yeah, their weapons are the ones who are killing people every day (17 deads each day) and those rebels now are murderers...

Fair enough, I will let this topic go, though reserve the right to post any updates (unless the admins lock the post, obviously) regarding the most recent situation here in WA.