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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 09:20
I would have to disagree with the guy who said that ER doctors are medicre. I think they are over worked and over stressed. It`s something that they decide to specialize in during their residency. Certainly not a fair generalization.
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 09:24
In the US, ER trained doctors are usually very sharp, above average. However, alot of non-ER trained doctors work in ERs and their skills can be pretty random. Not sure about Canada.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 17:56
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I read that article earlier today. Don't expect anybody around here to care about what it has to say.
Isn't it sad? People are so polarized on political issues they refuse to listnen not on;y to an opposing view but a neutral one too.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 18:45
What amazes me is how you often see those view points opposed more violently than their direct opposites.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 20:57
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

What amazes me is how you often see those view points opposed more violently than their direct opposites.
Because of the tremendous antagonism developed between the sides. It scares me sometimes.
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Points: 17309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:01
Totally agreed there.  We basically can't sit down and tackle problems reasonably anymore.  It's all about ideologies and lobbyists. 


...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:07
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Obamacare is a Devastating Tax on the Working Class
 
...the Democrats' bill will seriously harm precisely those poor and uninsured citizens it is ostensibly designed to help. The harm will come by compounding mass unemployment and depriving these citizens of consumption choices...
 
http://mises.org/daily/3855    the full article
Mmm, and they also think Somalia is a great place to be. Forgive me if I don't take what they say terribly seriously. :P
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:13
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I read it and don't understand it.
 
Economics is impossible for me to understand.
There's not that much economics there. The first part of the article has it all. The math is more of an academic exercise. Besides they twist or omit some obvious things. Not every low paid worker has low productivity, and a CEO running his company into bankrupcy is not exactly a high productivity worker.
 
If the $300-$700 nubmers are correct, young single individuals will be more employable than people with families. It will cause some layoffs and the remaining workers will have to increase their productivity to make up for the laid off. But I think  the most important thing it will push small business to the single payer system. That seems to be the main goal of this bill. The article says nothing about it. Looks like the libertarians like this idea for some reason
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:16
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Obamacare is a Devastating Tax on the Working Class
 
...the Democrats' bill will seriously harm precisely those poor and uninsured citizens it is ostensibly designed to help. The harm will come by compounding mass unemployment and depriving these citizens of consumption choices...
 
http://mises.org/daily/3855    the full article
 
 
 
Talk about oversimplifying the math to justify your thesis...
 
What I can understand about the bill, it doesn't address as much as it should, but Americans won't let our government do what needs to be done. Why I have no idea. But even the democrats won't put the bill on the table that actually fixes the problem.
 
But that article was just about "I'm against." Noted, young man. Noted.
Oversimplifying the math is a great tool to explain something complex. This is not the case here though. Why don't you tell us how to fix the problem. And begin with the definition of the problem please.
 
 


Edited by IVNORD - November 15 2009 at 21:38
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Points: 17309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:22
As a middle class person with a great employer plan, I'm expecting my company will eventually drop our plan when they have the cover to do so under the new system.  If that happens, I'll be mandated to spend many times the current amount for the same care.  How exciting.  
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:26
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

I would have to disagree with the guy who said that ER doctors are medicre. I think they are over worked and over stressed. It`s something that they decide to specialize in during their residency. Certainly not a fair generalization.
You're right I shouldn't have generalized it. Especially since my experience with ER's is limited to 2 hospitals in Northern Jersey and one in Savannah, GA. But it was very frustrating experience. Mostly involved my kids. The doctors were ok to remove a splinter or put stitches, but when it came to more serious things like broken bones or a fish bone stuck in my son's throat they called in specialists. But in any case I should not say that. ER doctors in large cities must be pretty sharp
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:30
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Totally agreed there.  We basically can't sit down and tackle problems reasonably anymore.  It's all about ideologies and lobbyists. 


It hasn't been like it 20 years ago, has it? (I mean this antagonistic approach, not lobbyists) Maybe I missed something but I noticed it for the first time during the 1992 campaign

Edited by IVNORD - November 15 2009 at 21:31
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 21:36
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Obamacare is a Devastating Tax on the Working Class
 
...the Democrats' bill will seriously harm precisely those poor and uninsured citizens it is ostensibly designed to help. The harm will come by compounding mass unemployment and depriving these citizens of consumption choices...
 
http://mises.org/daily/3855    the full article
Mmm, and they also think Somalia is a great place to be. Forgive me if I don't take what they say terribly seriously. :P
The libertarians are  weird sometimes. Once I read an article about privitizing the armed forces. This article is flawed too but the first part describes the problem. Draw your own conclusions.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2009 at 04:21
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Fortunately Canada is a communist country so all health care is free. People go to the hospital with headaches here. Our hospitals are more crowded than the shopping malls at Christmas.
I'm quite sure that if the shopping malls gave their product away for free too, they would be way more crowded. Wink
Our health care is questionable. I recently broke my ankle playing hockey ( I'm in an adjustable  walking cast that can be removed at night covered by medicare ) and was in the hospital for four days before they could figure out what was wrong with my ankle. I had 4 doctors and 3 residents ( student doctors )  poking around me, had two catscans because I also wacked my head in the fall as well as 7 or 8  x-rays. I had to be helped to the can everytime I had to take a dump and the orderlies took forever to arrive. I almost shat myself two times. I was a basket case by the time they let me go. I was in a small room with another guy who had diabetes complications.

The bloody nurses were waking us up every 2 hours for blood tests, take this pil take that pill etc. etc. For all we knew they could have been doing medical experiments on us. The guy finally got to sleep and then they came to wake him up for his sleeping pills. Then the guy didn`t sleep for another 2 days Hell on Earth.

 I`d rather pay for it out of my pocket and get to know what the freak is going on.


You were in the hospital for four days with a broken ankle?  Confused

Most of it was waiting. I came in by ambulance and the only thing they did immediately was check my vitals in the ambulance and in the triage and then I had to wait 27 hours before a doctor came to see me. They did a catscan and then I had to wait another half a day for the x-rays of my bloody ankle. Believe me Canadian hospitals are over-worked. One of the orderlies who was helping me to the can did an 18 hour shift. They wouldn`t allow my friend to help me because then the hospital would be liable if anything happened to me. And not one of the doctors who treated me was over the age of 30. Finally a more experienced  doctor over the age of 40 ( I think he was a specialist ) came and told me what was wrong and didn`t want to release me right away because of a blood infection I had at the beginning of October.

Needless to say I`ll live. The bloody world is over populated this is the problem. The Earth`s bounty cannot sustain our numbers. I felt like I was in a third world country for 4 days.


I'm glad you told this story. It seems like a very rare thing, yet it DOES happen.

What makes you think it's a very rare thing?


Because the is the only story to date I have heard about universal healthcare being a BAD thing. All other Canadians and Europeans I have spoke to thus far have all praised it. So based on my personal experiences through what folkes have told me, it 'seems' like a rare thing. Notice, I did indeed say the word 'seems' in my original post, as well. Wink
I've heard an equal number of both good and bad stories on the subject, some from people I know well, for example, my brother-in-law who had to go to a hospital while on vacation in Canada. And that scares me.
 
I did notice the word "seems" and I appreciate it.

I wanna build, a quote pyramid, up to the moon...LOL


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 16 2009 at 04:25
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2009 at 04:24
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Fortunately Canada is a communist country so all health care is free. People go to the hospital with headaches here. Our hospitals are more crowded than the shopping malls at Christmas.
I'm quite sure that if the shopping malls gave their product away for free too, they would be way more crowded. Wink
Our health care is questionable. I recently broke my ankle playing hockey ( I'm in an adjustable  walking cast that can be removed at night covered by medicare ) and was in the hospital for four days before they could figure out what was wrong with my ankle. I had 4 doctors and 3 residents ( student doctors )  poking around me, had two catscans because I also wacked my head in the fall as well as 7 or 8  x-rays. I had to be helped to the can everytime I had to take a dump and the orderlies took forever to arrive. I almost shat myself two times. I was a basket case by the time they let me go. I was in a small room with another guy who had diabetes complications.

The bloody nurses were waking us up every 2 hours for blood tests, take this pil take that pill etc. etc. For all we knew they could have been doing medical experiments on us. The guy finally got to sleep and then they came to wake him up for his sleeping pills. Then the guy didn`t sleep for another 2 days Hell on Earth.

 I`d rather pay for it out of my pocket and get to know what the freak is going on.


You were in the hospital for four days with a broken ankle?  Confused

Most of it was waiting. I came in by ambulance and the only thing they did immediately was check my vitals in the ambulance and in the triage and then I had to wait 27 hours before a doctor came to see me. They did a catscan and then I had to wait another half a day for the x-rays of my bloody ankle. Believe me Canadian hospitals are over-worked. One of the orderlies who was helping me to the can did an 18 hour shift. They wouldn`t allow my friend to help me because then the hospital would be liable if anything happened to me. And not one of the doctors who treated me was over the age of 30. Finally a more experienced  doctor over the age of 40 ( I think he was a specialist ) came and told me what was wrong and didn`t want to release me right away because of a blood infection I had at the beginning of October.

Needless to say I`ll live. The bloody world is over populated this is the problem. The Earth`s bounty cannot sustain our numbers. I felt like I was in a third world country for 4 days.


I'm glad you told this story. It seems like a very rare thing, yet it DOES happen.

What makes you think it's a very rare thing?


Because the is the only story to date I have heard about universal healthcare being a BAD thing. All other Canadians and Europeans I have spoke to thus far have all praised it. So based on my personal experiences through what folkes have told me, it 'seems' like a rare thing. Notice, I did indeed say the word 'seems' in my original post, as well. Wink
I've heard an equal number of both good and bad stories on the subject, some from people I know well, for example, my brother-in-law who had to go to a hospital while on vacation in Canada. And that scares me.
 
I did notice the word "seems" and I appreciate it.

I wanna build, a quote pyramid, up to the moon...LOL

I'm doing my part, but seriously, I think healthcare and health insurance are being deliberately mixed together in the debate by the health insurance industry.  They are not one in the same.  One takes care of you, the other fleeces you.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 23 2009 at 13:58
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Points: 17309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2009 at 13:23
Another part of the debate, and the key to how the wealthy will maintain their edge in quality of care, despite whatever reforms are enacted.  Nothing in the current legislation prevents this kind of thing going forward, and it is expect to quadruple in the next few years.  Great care and short waits will go to those who can write the big extra checks, lesser care and long waits will go to the rest. 

And you thought America was gonna have equal care for allWink.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34019606/ns/health-health_care
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2009 at 13:59
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Another part of the debate, and the key to how the wealthy will maintain their edge in quality of care, despite whatever reforms are enacted.  Nothing in the current legislation prevents this kind of thing going forward, and it is expect to quadruple in the next few years.  Great care and short waits will go to those who can write the big extra checks, lesser care and long waits will go to the rest. 

And you thought America was gonna have equal care for allWink.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34019606/ns/health-health_care

Heyyy, you were supposed to quote the last post to build up the pyramid.

Eh, I have every confidence that whatever the final bill is it will be a piece of crap.


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 30 2009 at 08:36
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2009 at 08:28

Quotes

"I have taken my Christmas wreath off my house. I have taken all the lights down.  
  This is supposed to be a nation under God, and it isn’t. They absolutely have ruined Christmas. 
  And I would like to see every light in the nation go out, especially in the White House." e  
      -- Bunny from Kansas, upset that she might be able to afford health care,      Link
 

"And yet, she had the motor skills to dial a telephone and broadcast to whoever was listening 
  exactly how stupid she is. In the old days, it would have taken us weeks to discover how stupid she is."
      -- Frances,      Link
 

"Don't get me started. The only two things keeping Kansas off the bottom of the heap 
  are named Coburn and Inhofe, and "Bunny from Parsons" lives near their turf."  
      -- FlownOver,      Link
 

"It's probably a good thing. Bunny probably would have left the tree up too long, it would have dried out, 
  caught on fire and the socialist fire department would have had to come rescue her and take her to the 
  hospital where a death panel would decide if she should be treated or dust-binned with the other undesirables. 
  You dodged a bullet, Bunny!"
      -- Cracker Jack,      Link
LOL
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 1009 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2009 at 09:15
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Quotes

"I have taken my Christmas wreath off my house. I have taken all the lights down.  
  This is supposed to be a nation under God, and it isn’t. They absolutely have ruined Christmas. 
  And I would like to see every light in the nation go out, especially in the White House." e  
      -- Bunny from Kansas, upset that she might be able to afford health care,      Link
 

"And yet, she had the motor skills to dial a telephone and broadcast to whoever was listening 
  exactly how stupid she is. In the old days, it would have taken us weeks to discover how stupid she is."
      -- Frances,      Link
 

"Don't get me started. The only two things keeping Kansas off the bottom of the heap 
  are named Coburn and Inhofe, and "Bunny from Parsons" lives near their turf."  
      -- FlownOver,      Link
 

"It's probably a good thing. Bunny probably would have left the tree up too long, it would have dried out, 
  caught on fire and the socialist fire department would have had to come rescue her and take her to the 
  hospital where a death panel would decide if she should be treated or dust-binned with the other undesirables. 
  You dodged a bullet, Bunny!"
      -- Cracker Jack,      Link
LOL
OK Slarty, I'll start a new one for you.  I can't wait for Mr. Hilter and Mr. Bimmler to hold one of their Bocialist rallies in my town.  I'll be there for sure.
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