The right to own a firearm

emdiar wrote: Seeing you all calmly debating the rights of every knuckle dragging individual in Hicksville to own enough firepower to take out a small primary school scares me.

See, this is sort of worrisome also... because (and I'm sure Danbo can correct me on this if I'm wrong)... most of the gun committed crimes in this country are not perpetrated by legal gun owners... but by guns that were stolen, or purchased on the black market. There is a pretty effective process involved in buying a gun.  I'm sure there are a few cracks in the system, but basically its a good process and a bit time consuming.  Not your usual criminals way to get a gun... 

And I don't think we're calmly debating the issue of everyone owning a gun, however,its very unfortunate that in some areas here its a necessity.

gdub411 wrote: Well..you living in Europe shouldn't worry what we in america want as far as guns go or not... I don't concern myself about european issues unless it somehow could affect me or my fellow americans. The last time I looked there's an ocean seperating us so do not concern yourself with american affairs

HA HA HA, are you telling me to stay out of other nations affairs? God I'm so tempted.............no, leave it em!

What a STUPID, incendiary topic for a music forum!

The person who started this one, I bet, likes to plant the minefield, then sit back and watch the "fun" & fireworks....

Nice poisoned little atmosphere you've got going here, "Paradox." Do you p*ss in your own well, and sh*t in your own bed, too?

This place just gets worse -- I'm well quit of it.

Peter Rideout wrote: What a STUPID, incendiary topic for a music forum! The person who started this one, I bet, likes to plant the minefield, then sit back and watch the "fun" & fireworks.... Nice poisoned little atmosphere you've got going here, "Paradox." Do you p*ss in your own well, and sh*t in your own bed, too? This place just gets worse -- I'm well quit of it.

Mr. Rideout

First of all I have read your outstanding reviews and I think they are informative and helpful.  I hope to continue reading them for a long time to come. I am just returning to Progressive music and there is a lot I have missed and you taking the time to post your reviews is very kind.

Having said that:

Did you read this forum title?  Discussions NOT related to music

I am relatively new here and I can tell already the most of old members seem to think that nothing should be discussed except music even in a topic that says it is not about music. I think if you click on the topic you get what you clicked for. It says Gun Control and yet you grace us with your comments that we are bunch of idiots for talking about it. Sure we could find a forum to discuss that and then another one to discuss something else and then spend the rest of our days searching and posting just to make sure we find the right forum for our comments.

 I ask you a question of you, Are the people who comment on this forum one dimensional? We are not supposed to enjoy the camaraderie we have here by discussing more than just progressive rock music? It is only natural as people get to know each other is to want to know more.  On this forum the natural question is "Well if you think that way about music what do think about this other subject".  

I am sorry to disagree with you on this one but if you want music only stay in the upper half of the discussion topics and stay out of this one. I like learning about other people and cultures even if I don't agree with them.  I think there are others here that feel the same and in the course of this discussion yours was the only one that was insulting. 

As for the topic, I think it is absolutely fascinating that we have two separate and divided cultures on this subject.

Peter Rideout wrote: First, thank you for the kind words re my reviews, Garion -- sincerely appreciated. I plan to write many more. Secondly, re "discussions not related to music, " I get the point, and it is a very good/valid point, indeed. (same goes for your response, 3F) I guess that I'm a bit of a dreamer, maybe too sensitive, and would like people to be "nicer"/ more considerate of others (not that I always am, but I try to be), and that this type of wide-open forum is really not the thing for me. Others have thicker skins, and can more easily separate the head and the heart.... (Still, I do belive that some topics are virual "booby traps," posted merely to inflame. Reading them brings me down -- but like a car accident, or Holocaust documentary, I just can't seem to look away.) I'm sure all forums go this way eventually, as 3F implied, but I have to be honest with myself, conclude that it's really not the place for me (too easy to hurt/anger faceless strangers, especially when real names are not even used), and quit, with no ill will toward those who elect to stay. (BTW, when I don't post here, my review output goes up, and that's why I joined originally anyway -- a creative outlet, & means to share a love of good music....) All the best to all, & sorry if I sounded intolerant of adult discussion, as above. See you in the reviews, & happy listening, Sincerely, Peter Rideout

Oh Peter.

Just had to jump in here (I've patiently waited for you to post)

I have to say that if I have been in anyway responsible for you leaving the forum then I am truly sorry. I have read all your reviews and have enjoyed all of them.It was reading the reviews by yourself,Jim and Bob Mcbeath that inspired me to join-in in the first place.It is very easy to get trigger happy with the "post reply" button when one has a few idle hours and inevitably this leads to much ahem wind being broken.

I myself left the forum (rather over-dramatically I might add) because "a little birdy" told me that "me and my like" were putting off people like you ,and
especially you,from using the forum. I am on a family holiday at the moment and the sun and relaxation puts a different perspective on things and I no longer feel particularly angry at the perpetrators of various lyrical snares and honey-traps designed I believe to get me to overstep the mark, antagonise you and others, and get myself chucked off the forum.

There are times when I have been critical of you, but this was genuinely meant to be "banter", maybe a mis-fire, but I never intended to belittle you.

So if I cant persuade you to stop on, please keep the reviews flowing and never lose faith in the music.

Peter Rideout wrote: I guess that I'm a bit of a dreamer, maybe too sensitive, and would like people to be "nicer"/ more considerate of others (not that I always am, but I try to be), and that this type of wide-open forum is really not the thing for me. Others have thicker skins, and can more easily separate the head and the heart.... (Still, I do belive that some topics are virual "booby traps," posted merely to inflame. Reading them brings me down -- but like a car accident, or Holocaust documentary, I just can't seem to look away.)

Maybe on second thought we do need to be reminded once in a while.  Not a bad thing either. But maybe just a tad toned down?  A lighting bolt can be very upsetting.    Keep coming around sometimes. 

threefates wrote: I don't think I need to be reminded to add humor, Peter...

What do you call male prostitutes in England? Peter Sellers....

Peter, I know you continue to read the forum, even when you do not actively participate, and I look forward to seeing you back. This forum can be compulsive, not to say adicitve, and you are absolutely right to come and go as your real life permits. There are many others who do so, but I would mention Fragile and Hibou in particular, who to me have "got it right". They dip in and out as it suits them, and are entirely (and of course rightly) comfortable doing so. 

I do share your concerns about some of the off topic discussions. I would not want to see the facility to talk about things other than music removed, as I feel it can often help us to get to know each other a little better. I don't feel however that the original topic of this thread served that purpose well, and consequently while I have strong views on it, I have not posted them.

I would not have have any problem with a some guidance being given on subjects which are discouraged. This is after all a music forum, there are plently of other forums to discuss politics, religion etc. for example. I'm not suggesting censorship as such, just guidelines. As with the civility thread, no doubt there would be some lively discussions on these guidelines, but I'm sure a majority concensus could be achieved.

Reed Lover, I though your post above was excellent. I was sorry to read that you were put in a position where you felt you had to leave, it's good to see you back.

There was some discussion in your leaving thread as to whether you had simply reinvented yourself, and I posted a message about that myself. After thinking a bit more about it, I deleted my post, as I realised it was none of my business whether you had or had not done so. The great thing about this forum is that everyone can be who we want to be. If we want to "re-invent" ourselves, we are free to do so (I'm not now suggesting you did!).

I think the difficulty many of us have with the forum is that we do not always appreciate when we write something, that it may not be taken in the way we intended. Even moderate and considerate members can inadvertently come across as abrasive sometimes. I'm sure some of those I am now talking of will be thinking "he doesn't mean me".  The written word removes all the emotion and emphasis of normal conversation. Emoticons can seem a bit childish (for want of a better word), but they are a great way of indicating whether you are joking, serious, etc. Many of us do not use them enough.

Peter always "paints" his posts well, which greatly enhances our ability to get a flavour of his emotions behind what he says. Underlines, italics, bold, colours all help to get the true message across yet, as with this post, most of us tend to put our efforts almost entirely into just the words.

Anyway, back to the music section...

gdub411 wrote: emdiar wrote: gdub411 wrote: Well..you living in Europe shouldn't worry what we in america want as far as guns go or not... I don't concern myself about european issues unless it somehow could affect me or my fellow americans. The last time I looked there's an ocean seperating us so do not concern yourself with american affairs   HA HA HA, are you telling me to stay out of other nations affairs? God I'm so tempted.............no, leave it em! no Emidar...just asking-Why do you care when it is so far away? please don't get on a soapbox and start asking if I care about the Aids epidemic in Africa and such either. The debate about gun laws and millions of people dieing are ALOT different

This is an emotive topic, and was bound to lead to passionate disagreement. Most of us Europeans find the idea of gun ownership, made so easy, very unsettling. To ask why we care being so far away is a ridiculous question. I for one do care about American issues. Who sits in the Whitehouse effects the whole world in many ways, and US gun laws can go some way to deciding who does sit in the Whitehouse! Arms control is a real political hot potato in the US.

In stereotypical American fashion you just dont want to be disagreed with, and refuse to accept you could be wrong, or at least that the views of others outside your back yard could count for anything.