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tworoads View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Throwaway Download Culture
    Posted: October 01 2009 at 03:13
Pot Noodle Music Nation

Whilst I was thinking in bed last night my mind jumped suddenly to the phenomenon of downloading music and whether it has effected my patience and judgment on whether I actually give any music I download a fair chance of a listen anymore before lam yet again off downloading something else.

Perhaps lam chasing the progressive rock rainbow the pot of gold album that will never ever exist but it doesn't seem to deter me trying though.(I am sure we have all had the thought that this is the album)

I remember when I was growing up it was a real treat to save up for an album and I used to be a lot more choosy about what I purchased. There seemed to be something satisfying about holding an album in your hands. It was a work art musically and graphically for my £3.99 or £4.99 I had a product I could see and touch and become at one with.

Records became like your closet friends someone you could share your innermost thoughts with,more reliable and better looking than most of the girls I went out with anyway then again that wasn't difficult. I used to have a record brush to clean them with,and plastic sleeves to store them in and handle them by the edges and frown when ever anybody else touched them apart from me. So records were my social and love life all mixed into one without the headaches or the fear of being turned away by my fumbling chat up lines or clumsy advances towards the opposite sex.

I do remember with great excitement the first time I ever downloaded a track from the internet,well I admit it I was a music pirate at that point.

Thinking about it I would have made a crap pirate,i would have been the one with a dodgy plastic pirate patch from the joke shop with the ridiculous piece of elastic on and a wooden leg made out of balsa wood.

This something I have never felt comfortable with. I felt like I was the only person doing this and I would have all the government agencies at one point knocking at my door. I must have spent weeks hiding behind the sofa and dodgy curtains every time the door bell rang.

It was something of a revelation at first when all these music download stores starting popping up with legal downloads for about £6.99 or so,i was downloading like mad and I felt good about it legal music downloaded off the internet,even though at this point I still had a thought in the back of my mind?

How does this effect the bands that make all this great music ,would they be getting any of the money that I was giving to these various websites,it just didn't feel right to me and still doesn't to this day.

It really is a double edged sword because I know that without the internet I wouldn't have been able to listen to as much music as I have,and bands perhaps would not get the exposure that they have now.

But has all this actually helped any bands has it made them financially viable? It has obviously widened their audience quite dramatically but does that mean the music fans are actually buying any more of their music?

Perhaps I am just getting older but it seems people from my generation (I am 42 years old now) seem to be more responsible in the way that they manage their music collections and embrace the internet and music in general.

Personally I listen to new music tracks now on the internet and where ever possible order the cd`s direct from the band themselves. Where this is not possible I use specialist progressive rock online shops to purchase from.

I have at times even downloaded music from mindawn.com but always end up with a physical cd in my hands afterwards. This is the problem everything is now so immediate and we really cant seem to wait for anything any more. You cannot beat the excitement of waiting for a cd to arrive and trying to smuggle it upstairs without your wife or girlfriend knowing. (Perhaps prog cd`s should come in plain brown envelopes)

So mp3,flac,ogg,wav,aa,rac there are so many different types of music extensions fueled by the ever growing market of mp3 players,we must have music in a portable format so we can listen when ever we want.

I have been caught up in the technological addiction of this I bought one of the first ipods ,a lovely white colour and managed to annoy everyone on my greenline bus with the volume when I was a lot younger. The thing is I now look at these people with there various ear pieces in headphones,sabretooth or whatever it is called this week and just sigh.

Without all this technology i wouldn't have been able to make my site current with new reviews of music and updates etc so i have embraced this technology up to a point but just feel a little sad at times that things have changed this way.

Music to me should be enjoyed live where ever possible,if not in the comfort of your living room with a decent stereo and a proper book of rules to go with the listening experience not some instant electronic file that is turning us into a pot noodle music nation.

What does everyone else think?

Todds www.progboys.com




Edited by tworoads - October 01 2009 at 03:20
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progkidjoel View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 03:25
"...And all of a sudden, kids can download an album in the space of minutes. Not just an album - The band's entire back catalogue. Think about it - A kid downloads The Wall, listens to a couple of tracks, doesn't like what he hears and deletes it. This is the true danger of the download - When music can be so easily obtained, it can be cast away with just as little thought."

- Steven Wilson

I only ever buy CD's, and the few downloads I own are thins which aren't available on CD's (Example, Porcupine Tree's live version of TINTO BRASS from WARSZAWA).

Technology is incredibly important in music technology - If not for the internet (and PA) I sincerely doubt I'd listen to a quarter of the music I've grown to love.

Originally posted by TwoRoads TwoRoads wrote:

I remember when I was growing up it was a real treat to save up for an album and I used to be a lot more choosy about what I purchased. There seemed to be something satisfying about holding an album in your hands. It was a work art musically and graphically for my £3.99 or £4.99 I had a product I could see and touch and become at one with.


I agree 100% with what you said - I'm 15, but I still buy CD's, and I have to wait for a majority of them for to arrive a couple of weeks later in the post. I genuinely enjoy this wait - It builds my anticipation for the album, and as I have my sights set on it, I usually give it more thought and listening than I will with a disc I borrowed off a friend.

Originally posted by TwoRoads TwoRoads wrote:

Personally I listen to new music tracks now on the internet and where ever possible order the cd`s direct from the band themselves. Where this is not possible I use specialist progressive rock online shops to purchase from.


Same here - Not only does it support the artist, but the prices are usually better.

Originally posted by TwoRoads TwoRoads wrote:

Perhaps I am just getting older but it seems people from my generation (I am 42 years old now) seem to be more responsible in the way that they manage their music collections and embrace the internet and music in general.


You're right about majority of kids my age - I have friends who brag about owning 6000 songs, and around 5900 of those are usually (illegally) downloaded.



Thats my two cents.
Great post and thread, and welcome to PA!

-Joel
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 03:37
joel

thanks for your reply and  your insight that is a great quote from steven wilson,i hadnt seen that before. thanks for sharing it with me.

adrian
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 03:43
Thanks Adrian - I also thought I should add that its hard to claim you're a fan of, and love, the music if you download it for free. I mean, if you're not willing to pay for it, how much can you care?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 03:48
i completely agree joel, it is a major issue to be honest it is so refreshing to hear someone say that for once.

i do believe that the majority of progressive rock fans though have a conscience and like to support their favourite artists   though. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 04:44
I pretty much agree with everything you pointed out in your post, but I'd like to add the downloading of singles... people just downloading that one song they've heard and not caring about the remaining music on the album. I think a the mood of the album is much less "optimal" when the artwork is missing... a nice example of this is the album 10,000 Days from Tool, which I recently bought. The album CD cover contains some glasses, that you have to use to see the artwork in the booklet in 3D. Very original, and it gives the album just that little bit extra mood to make it even better than it already is. For this, I have never downloaded an album or felt the need to download an album (except a few which were free legal downloads on the band's official website).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:13
I think that SW is wrong here ... sure, downloading an album is a much faster and less intense thing than buying an album, unwrapping it and putting it in a player. On the other hand the internet with all the free sample sites (myspace, last.fm) and download stores makes the music available to many people who would not have bought a full album in the first place. Sure, some of them will check out a few tracks, decide that it's not for them and move on. But many others will be motivated to download a full album ... and - at least for me - a downloaded album can be appreciated as much as an album that you have in your physical collection. I know that this transition is difficult for some people who are simply very used to holding albums in their hands, but in time the digital versions will replace the paper and plastic.

BTW: Don't think that musicians get rich by selling physical albums ... they may be more expensive than downloads, but that doesn't mean that the musicians get a big share of that money. In any case, the musicians are responsible for selecting which stores their albums are available at (or, by extension, the record companies that the musicians chose to make deals with). If they choose to make the album available at iTunes or Amazon MP3, or even at eMusic.com (which is the most affordable MP3 store AFAIK), us fans should not hesitate to purchase their music there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:18
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

I think that SW is wrong here ... sure, downloading an album is a much faster and less intense thing than buying an album, unwrapping it and putting it in a player. On the other hand the internet with all the free sample sites (myspace, last.fm) and download stores makes the music available to many people who would not have bought a full album in the first place. Sure, some of them will check out a few tracks, decide that it's not for them and move on. But many others will be motivated to download a full album ... and - at least for me - a downloaded album can be appreciated as much as an album that you have in your physical collection. I know that this transition is difficult for some people who are simply very used to holding albums in their hands, but in time the digital versions will replace the paper and plastic.


Its good to hear you can do that, and I understand it, but I also feel you need the album artwork. Sure, you can look at it on your computer, but as (another) Steven Wilson quote about downloading points out...

"If I buy a piece of art, I want it on my wall. Not as a f**king J-Peg on my PC or iPhone."

I know the album art can be there, but I can't feel it, I can't hold it, and I can't feel the same buzz as feeling and seeing the physical art.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:22
^ I simply don't share SW's resentment when it comes to digital data.

BTW: if I wanted to put all my albums on my wall, I would clearly need a bigger room ... maybe a cool solution would be a digital picture frame, with the cover art of all my albums, cycling every two minutes.

And incidentally: How is a jpeg that different from a printed reproduction of a painting?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:25
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ I simply don't share SW's resentment when it comes to digital data. BTW: if I wanted to put all my albums on my wall, I would clearly need a bigger room ... maybe a cool solution would be a digital picture frame, with the cover art of all my albums, cycling every two minutes.And incidentally: How is a jpeg that different from a printed reproduction of a painting?


You can't physically see or hold a Jpeg in your hands, and its nothing material.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:30
^ you can display the jpeg on a monitor (or in a digital picture frame) - then you can hold that in your hands.

Edited by Mr ProgFreak - October 01 2009 at 05:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:32
but what about the pixels Wink  its the pixels poor Pablo Picasso would be turning in his grave
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:39
Digital Downloading (even bootlegging) is a blessing to small, up and coming bands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:45
Originally posted by Qboyy007 Qboyy007 wrote:

Digital Downloading (even bootlegging) is a blessing to small, up and coming bands.


I agree with digital Downloading if legal but boot legging i disagree with completely.

This is the whole point to fully support the bands and not harm their potential income,sucess how is bootlegging helping anyone?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:48
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:


^ you can display the jpeg on a monitor (or in a digital picture frame) - then you can hold that in your hands.


Its just not the same - I don't know how to explain...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:52

hi,

i just want to share with you some of my feelings I posted on beardfish forum incidentally a couple of days ago. Here goes.

Quote ...on pirate downloading. My apologies to the band here. I went to all registration into this forum in order to say to the band that I am sorry to have downloaded Sleeping I and II in their entirety. After a month of listening i decided I really love your albums I bought them both from Ebay.
Same applies to music by other artists, including your friends here Tangent, Pain of Salvation, Karmakanic, etc. I know this is lame excuse but I am living in a small country in Asia where only you can't find progressive rock CDs unless they are as big as Dream Theater. I can't buy MP3 from iTunes or Amazon, as they think we Asian will distribute the files once downloaded (as if Americans or Europeans don't do it). Buying a real album costs a fortune in shipping and handling (most of the time equal or more expensive than the CDs), for example, InsideOut shop charges EUR27.5 for shipping 2 CDs, or Tripple Crown charges 40US for the limited ed of Dear Hunter. So with my level of income I need to make sure I buy the CDs I really like.
Again, guys, sorry. Unfortunately I will do it again.

and

Quote Just to add, of those mentioned in my previous post, I proudly own Tangent's Not As Good As the Book, Karmakanic's Boss in the Factory, Tomas Bodin's IAM and PoS' BE.


And who are we to justify the right in all we do
Until we seek, until we find Ammonia Avenue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmJ39j58W0
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:54
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:



And incidentally: How is a jpeg that different from a printed reproduction of a painting?
The answer to that is probably "not very much" since a printed reproduction pales into insignificance when compared to the original, especially if it is of one of the Old Master such as The Night Watch or The Hay Wain where the scale and finess of the oringinal can not be conveyed in a small A2 reproduction and the colour depth and spectrum cannot be replicated using four-colour printing techniques (even using giclee printing process).


Edited by Dean - October 01 2009 at 05:55
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 05:57
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:


^ you can display the jpeg on a monitor (or in a digital picture frame) - then you can hold that in your hands.


Its just not the same - I don't know how to explain...

With a CD booklet you've got to skip pages or unfold it... on a monitor all you need to do is scroll down. Also, you can touch the monitor, but you can't touch the artwork directly, which you can do with a CD booklet. People can feel they are holding a paper booklet, while they can't feel they're holding a Jpeg... Also, one little malfunction and the monitor turns black and the artwork is gone. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 06:04
Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:


Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:


^ you can display the jpeg on a monitor (or in a digital picture frame) - then you can hold that in your hands.


Its just not the same - I don't know how to explain...

With a CD booklet you've got to skip pages or unfold it... on a monitor all you need to do is scroll down. Also, you can touch the monitor, but you can't touch the artwork directly, which you can do with a CD booklet. People can feel they are holding a paper booklet, while they can't feel they're holding a Jpeg... Also, one little malfunction and the monitor turns black and the artwork is gone. 




That explains it a lot better - I love to feel the texture of the slipcases, digipaks or booklets...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2009 at 06:13
I've recently found quite a bit of information about digital distribution (as the suits like to call downloading).

Did you know, for example, that your internet provider has a record of everything you have ever downloaded?
And that they are asked - not legally obliged however - to report illegal downloads to the police?
However, they never do, because they would quickly lose all their clients. And the police aren't doing anything - I can only speak for Australia, but our police force is not equipped for the 21st century... they're living in the 80's.

It is a serious epidemic. Bands have always got screwed over one way or another - a.k.a record companies giving them crappy contracts - but you would have hoped that when 16-year-olds can play in front of crowds of thousands we could spend a little time giving other bands the money they deserve.

Speaking of 16-year-olds, this is why Disney is making such a big splash in the music industry - their audience, consisting of 8-14 year old girls, has no idea what downloading is, let alone are repeated downloaders. Think of that next time someone says d/ling doesn't affect how much an artist makes.
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