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progmetalhead View Drop Down
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Points: 2081 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:34
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ it's the distinction between prog style and progressive approach ... it's obvious that The Incident is nothing like Genesis or Yes in terms of style. The problem, as I see it, is that many people think in terms of style *only* and completely forget the other aspects. Back in the 70s the prog artists usually used both. They invented new styles - also with the help of all new instruments like synthesizers, mellotron etc - but also had much experimentalism, avant-garde etc. in their music. IMO The Incident is a nice example of an album that has the experimentalism, avant-garde ... call it "progressive spirit" or - as I've settled for on PF - "progressive approach", but without the stylistic similarity, which makes it simply more difficult to recognize for those who look for synth solos and layers of mellotron.
 
Thanks Mike! Thumbs Up
 
I knew you would explain better than I ever could and obviously I totally agree with you Wink
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:49
Horrible album.
Trash.
Disgusting.
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Points: 19643 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:53
Originally posted by Petrovsk Mizinski Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:

Horrible album.Trash.Disgusting.


Really?
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:55


Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Originally posted by Petrovsk Mizinski Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:

Horrible album.Trash.Disgusting.


Really?


Nah, I haven't even heard it yetClown
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Points: 19643 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:58
^^

I smell a troll...
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:56
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

^^

I smell a troll...


No, that's just Harry.  LOL
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:59
On another note, do we really need three freaking threads on this one album?  Ermm

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58722
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61324
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60278
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:42
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

On another note, do we really need three freaking threads on this one album?  Ermm

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58722
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61324
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60278

It's the new Porcupine Tree album, of course we do.  Tongue
The real question is which one should we use?
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:10
Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ it's the distinction between prog style and progressive approach ... it's obvious that The Incident is nothing like Genesis or Yes in terms of style. The problem, as I see it, is that many people think in terms of style *only* and completely forget the other aspects. Back in the 70s the prog artists usually used both. They invented new styles - also with the help of all new instruments like synthesizers, mellotron etc - but also had much experimentalism, avant-garde etc. in their music. IMO The Incident is a nice example of an album that has the experimentalism, avant-garde ... call it "progressive spirit" or - as I've settled for on PF - "progressive approach", but without the stylistic similarity, which makes it simply more difficult to recognize for those who look for synth solos and layers of mellotron.

You might be right about the progressive spirit, as the thing is a very ambitious piece of music. It does feel too inconsistant both in terms of music and style to me though. And because of that, the concept starts to fade away too IMO. What you said about experimentalism and avant-garde... I don't know. I don't think it is very avant-garde, as the Incident combines a lot of musical ideas they did before. I can hear some psychedelic, early Porcupine Tree in it, some more pop like PT from Stupid Dream, and lots of FOABP style music. By combining these things I dont think they have made much progress since FOABP at all. They don't have to, of course, but it doesn't make The Incident very avant-garde and refreshing I think. 


I got an completely different impression. Did you pay any attention to the lyrics? The whole cycle seems very homogenous to me, it all "ties in" both lyrically and musically. You're describing the album on a very shallow level, which I don't think is appropriate. For example I think that it would have been appropriate for albums like Stupid Dream or Deadwing.

Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:



Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ I think Steven Wilson said otherwise in an interview I read ... unfortunately I don't have it here right now (at work), I can post an excerpt later.

I think that The Incident can be best called a "song cycle" ... it's a sequence of songs that are nicely connected, and there is a common theme and also some nice musical links between the songs. As far as I am concerned, it absolute screams "PROGRESSIVE" ... but - as I said above - not in terms of style. If you disagree that's fine with me, but I still think that I'm right about this. "Right" in that whatever PT do on The Incident, it should be called "progressive".

I agree about the song cycle thing, though the album was announced as a 55 minute song and 4 song EP. 


It is a 55 minute song, it's simply constructed as a sequence of chapters with recurring elements - which some choose to call "cycle".
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Points: 35 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:25
I like it, though the first disc heavily outclasses the second for me (except Remember Me Lover, which is amazing). If I were to write a review right now, I'd give it four stars. What I like about it is that there's a lot more emotion in The Incident than in Fear of a Blank Planet, where only parts of My Ashes and Sentimental could really touch me. Steven's singing has improved as well, except on Drawing the Line which is probably my least favourite part of the album - he just wasn't ready for that yet, it sounds like he's totally exhausting himself, lawl. 
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Points: 15141 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:26
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ it's the distinction between prog style and progressive approach ... it's obvious that The Incident is nothing like Genesis or Yes in terms of style. The problem, as I see it, is that many people think in terms of style *only* and completely forget the other aspects. Back in the 70s the prog artists usually used both. They invented new styles - also with the help of all new instruments like synthesizers, mellotron etc - but also had much experimentalism, avant-garde etc. in their music. IMO The Incident is a nice example of an album that has the experimentalism, avant-garde ... call it "progressive spirit" or - as I've settled for on PF - "progressive approach", but without the stylistic similarity, which makes it simply more difficult to recognize for those who look for synth solos and layers of mellotron.

You might be right about the progressive spirit, as the thing is a very ambitious piece of music. It does feel too inconsistant both in terms of music and style to me though. And because of that, the concept starts to fade away too IMO. What you said about experimentalism and avant-garde... I don't know. I don't think it is very avant-garde, as the Incident combines a lot of musical ideas they did before. I can hear some psychedelic, early Porcupine Tree in it, some more pop like PT from Stupid Dream, and lots of FOABP style music. By combining these things I dont think they have made much progress since FOABP at all. They don't have to, of course, but it doesn't make The Incident very avant-garde and refreshing I think. 


I got an completely different impression. Did you pay any attention to the lyrics? The whole cycle seems very homogenous to me, it all "ties in" both lyrically and musically. You're describing the album on a very shallow level, which I don't think is appropriate. For example I think that it would have been appropriate for albums like Stupid Dream or Deadwing.

Though the whole cycle might tie in lyrically, I don't think it ties in musically, apart from some parts (Octane Twisted/Seance/Circle Of Manias is a good example of that). I think, despite the album being a concept album, Porcupine Tree focuses more on the music that lyrics, as the lyrics are good but not overwhelmingly special, so I chose to discuss the music. What you said about my way of discribing fitiing in with an album like Deadwing feels a bit strange to me, as Deadwing also is a concept album, which might even be more strory driven that The Incident is.

Anyway, I don't think this discussion will end... we both have our opinions and I don't think they'll change, so I suggest continouing this discussion won't really work.LOL


Edited by floydispink - September 18 2009 at 09:27
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:35
^ but then again discussions can be enlightening even if no solution is found ... I simply find it interesting to discover points of view that I hadn't thought of before. For example, I have never thought of Deadwing as a concept album.

BTW: The Incident is not really a "narrative" concept album, it's more like a big musical essay about existence and what we are (or should/shouldn't be) doing with our lives, combined with the incident itself as a spark for those thoughts. Deadwing might be the opposite ... it was based on a planned screen play, so there might be more elements of narrative stories in it. Still, I think that musically it is by far less homogenous than The Incident. The latter is just so cleverly constructed, with Time Flies in the center, and the introductory theme repeated after the incident etc..
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 12:57
Originally posted by Abyssal Sheep Abyssal Sheep wrote:

I like it, though the first disc heavily outclasses the second for me (except Remember Me Lover, which is amazing). If I were to write a review right now, I'd give it four stars. What I like about it is that there's a lot more emotion in The Incident than in Fear of a Blank Planet, where only parts of My Ashes and Sentimental could really touch me. Steven's singing has improved as well, except on Drawing the Line which is probably my least favourite part of the album - he just wasn't ready for that yet, it sounds like he's totally exhausting himself, lawl. 


I'm quite sure that's intentional ... I didn't like that part at first, but it's not a problem anymore. Sounding out of breath while singing lines like "I'm taking control" is giving the lines some irony, which is in line with the general topic of the album. The bottom line is that you are definitely not in control of your life ... it is happening to you, whether you like it or not, and you can only try to make the best of it.
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Points: 6442 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:07
I seem to be the only one really enjoying Drawing the Line. Perhaps my favourite part of the whole album.

Here's what Steven Wilson has to say about the album concept: "“There was a sign saying ‘POLICE – INCIDENT’ and everyone was slowing down to rubber neck to see what had happened... Afterwards, it struck me that ‘incident’ is a very detached word for something so destructive and traumatic for the people involved. And then I had the sensation that the spirit of someone that had died in the accident entered into my car and was sitting next to me. “The irony of such a cold expression for such seismic events appealed to me, and I began to pick out other ‘incidents’ reported in the media and news,” continues Wilson. “I wrote about the evacuation of teenage girls from a religious cult in Texas, a family terrorizing its neighbors, a body found floating in a river by some people on a fishing trip, and more. Each song is written in the first person and tries to humanize the detached media reportage.”



Edited by Keppa4v - September 18 2009 at 14:20
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Points: 3083 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:23

^I liked Drawing the Line, too.
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:53
Ok. I've listened to the album all the way through now.
 
What is it with Porcupine Tree??? This is an interesting album but it was anointed best prog album of the year before people even heard it and now a large proportion of people are either buying into the hype or acting remarkably disappointed that it's not the album of the year.
 
I don't dislike it but there are many many good album out this year and there is no way this is even top 5. Riverside has put out an album with some very similar qualities - dark atmosphere, heavy elements, but it's so much more varied, more emotional, and most of all MORE PROG!!!!
 
I need to give several of these albums more listens to see how they hold up, but why this band? There was a prog show where they played songs from Part the Second and Incident side by side and it was like a young Picasso next to an average college art major.
 
It's not bad, but jeez people.
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 15:59
^ I've listened to the new Riverside album about 5 times - same with The Incident. I clearly prefer The Incident, although I also like ADHD very much.

What I don't understand about your post: Why focus on what's bad, or even what's worse? So you think that The Incident is pure nonsense, not worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence with ADHD?


I genuinely don't understand what is happening to this place ... when I joined even despite of all the arguments about which band should be added and which shouldn't, it was still a place where music lovers came together to praise music. Nowadays it seems to me more like a big arena where people try to slaughter bands that they, for whichever reason, can't get into after one quick listen.
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 16:17

What I'm saying is that on early listen, I can hear Riverside stretching into new territory. I can hear them challenging themselves (which was not so much the case on part 3 of their previous trilogy). I cannot take all of it in on one listen, but I can tell it's going to be worth my time to do so. If the Incident were not being hyped as it is, I might not give it a second listen, frankly.

And I think it probably shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Part the Second in terms of art or progressiveness.
 
That all seems harsh, and I will listen to it more because I respect others' opinions. But I search to understand what the claims for album of the year already being thrown around are about.
 
I'll shut up now until I listen a few more times.
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 18:01

^Porcupine Tree just seem to be one of those bands that gets a lot of attention and admiration from the majority of prog fans whilst a number of us are left wandering what all the fuss is and see them as an OK, or even mediocer, band.

Unfortunatly it leads to a lot of hype and people claiming "album of the year" before anyones heard it, and this is the third album in a row to get that treatment.
 
Havn't actaully listened to The Incident, and since I really didnt like the last 2 albums and its not getting very favourable opinions from several people in here I dont think I'll bother with it. 
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 18:29
^ FYI: The album was released last week in Europe. I haven't said anything about the album prior to listening to it.

But why do I bother ... you already made up your mind anyway.
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