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Alberto Muñoz 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
 Posted: September 09 2009 at 09:15 |
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I imagine Adorno in the studio chat session with the Beatles telling how's Get Back might have sound.
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
Posted: September 09 2009 at 13:58 |
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No, Adorno and anyone else connected with the actual song composition would have them passed down through the proper channels. Then the band would be instructed as to where to go from there.
It is not uncommon to have ghost writers in music and literature and have someone elses name attached to it. Happens all the time.
The band went from a simple rockin blues band to writing very slick and polished tunes out of no where. Anytime anything is mass peddled I tend to take it all with a grain of salt.
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009 Location: Lexington, VA Status: Offline Points: 971 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 00:08 |
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And you obviously haven't heard the evolution from Help to Rubber Soul to Revolver. That is certainly not out of nowhere. They were great writers and solid musicians; people still listen to their music for that reason. If they are conning us, then I'd gladly follow and worship them obediently
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007 Location: Devon,UK. Status: Offline Points: 2078 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 00:09 |
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You should of put a yoko option up
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 02:09 |
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It's not to take anything away from the music, no, some of it is very good, but I'm not convinced they wrote it, that's all. As far as not talking, well money goes a long way in keeping a person quiet, among other things. Gag orders are issued to military personal and others in positions close to so called sensitive information all the time. I know an individual who has a gag order placed on him and he has to inform the authorities of any change of address etc, etc. I even suspect that Lennon may have been killed for that very reason. If Lennon spilled the beans on that one, the world would have listened. Anyway, who knows, it's all possible. Lets put it this way, the Beatles had an awful lot to say about shaping the culture of youth. They really got the ball rolling so to speak.
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earlyprog
Collaborator 
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 06:14 |
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This threa(t/d) is obviously in the wrong forum. It should be in the "Just for Fun" forum.
The Ruthless have returned from outer space.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 21:23 |
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[QUOTE=Equality 7-2521] [QUOTE=Sacred 22]
None of the above listed. Theodor W. Adorno was the brains behind the 'Beatles' as he held the rights to the music and eventually his estate sold those rights to Michael Jackson.
Adorno a classical musician wrote their music and it was all filtered down through Paul who could not read a note of music by the way. In fact the only half way real musician in the band was George Harrison. John was a poet who could strum a few chords and Ringo a hack drummer at best. George often wondered why they never wanted to use his songs. Oh and as an aside, Paul ended up being Knighted, and you don't get Knighted unless you have done as you were told and made your masters proud.
The Beatles were introduced to the public as a means to spread youth culture which led to the spreading of the 'New Age' culture and this was all geared to setting up a nylistic culture that is all to present today. It's called divide and conquer but this gets into a whole different 'Pandora's Box' if you will. Things are not what they seem This is probably the wrong thread to discuss this, as I have gone outside the topic many times myself. I love the Beatles no doubt. But I feel compelled to support some of your viewpoints due to all the horrifying crime that I witnessed during my extended time in the music biz. When music changed in the media, I was always there hands on watching agents, managers, and record executives forcing or blackballing anyone that stood in the way of that change. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 21:53 |
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an excellent article on how and why the Beatles music, particularly the early work, was so notable for the time, it even mentions Adorno right at about halfway down the page -
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME03/Words_and_chords.shtml |
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 22:23 |
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I'll be reading that one when I have some time to digest. In the meantime, everybody let's enjoy the 'reciprocal oral sex' yearning of Please Please Me:
C'mon c'mon c'mon c'mon c'mon, c'mon c'mon c'mon
Please please me, oh yeah, like I please you...
Damn box set.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
Posted: September 10 2009 at 23:39 |
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I have seen it first hand as well. Few people really understand how the business works. You have seen it and you know. Once you get into the business you find out and Frank Zappa was very vocal about that. Steven Wilson as of late is another one.
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 03:08 |
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Interesting article and it really supports what I have been saying. Thanks for digging that one up.
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 03:20 |
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Now that I think of it, Plato said in the 'Republic' that he thought musicians should be licenced for the tremendous power that they can weild upon the unsuspecting public, and when you look at what those master musicians (Beatles) who could not even read music did, well it really should have any intellegent person thinking. Culture creation? hmmmmmmmmmm
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players" |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 03:49 |
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of course it supports what you've been saying, don't most things? Surely the substandard quality of the Beatles' solo work was due to Adorno's absence. And George Harrison was attacked in his home by a crazed fan to silence him. Wait, I can see it; one day in early 1966 Paul McCartney quietly meets with one 'Mr. A' who promptly says, "I like you boys but listen to this", at which point he plays a demo version of Eleanor Rigby, after which Paul says "Yeah mate, you've really got somethin there". Edited by Atavachron - September 11 2009 at 03:51 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 05:04 |
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This is veering off into von Däniken territory and follows a similar logic to his arrogant theories that ancient civilisations were too primitive to have built the pyramids so they must have had alien help.
There are too many assumptions being made about the musical abilities of the Beatles and all this musicologist analysis is retrospective. It is already been asserted that the Beatles played "by ear", so it is only natural that they composed "by ear" - and in doing that they would not have followed any rules of chord progressions, blues or otherwise, since their musical education was practical rather than theoretical and from a broader palate (and palette
 ) than just blues based rock'n'roll. For example their use of the plagel cadence shows that hymns figured somewhere in that education, which is not unsurprising given the School Education system in 1950s Liverpool being considerably less secular than we know it today; also McCartney's family were Jazz and Brass Band musicians, he was exposed to all kinds of music and would have called on that when writing his own music.
Of course they would have started from a framework of 'standard' chord progressions learnt from hit tunes of the day without realising that they were "rules", but then modified that with accidental note, chord and key changes that simply sounded right to them, regardless of how right those new progressions where to trained musicologists. These things don't have to be planned or orchestrated, they just happen, and thousands of other bands make similar 'mistakes', just none of them hit upon a winning formula quite like the Beatles did. Wacky (or clever) key changes could be similar 'errors' - in retrospect they look complex, but they could just as easily be "compose by ear" changes that sounded right to them - I doubt that they knew they were modulating from "the home key of G Major onto an unstable B minor." - the chord just fitted for them at that time so they used it.
Another point made in the text is that some of the chord progressions don't stand up without the overlying vocal harmony - which they make out is some wonderfully clever invention - it's not - it's a natural result of composing on the guitar/piano while singing along - both the melody and the chord progression were composed simultaneously, that's all. Edited by Dean - September 12 2009 at 16:56 |
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What?
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earlyprog
Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 06:16 |
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It gives new meaning to the Fab 4...
The Fabricated 4
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 06:26 |
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^ I think you're confusing them with the pre-fab four:
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What?
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earlyprog
Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 06:54 |
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^the Prefabricated Four
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camilleanne
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 29 2009 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 403 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 07:58 |
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I think its JohnLennon
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The planet is fine the people are f**ked.
-George Carlin- |
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ModernRocker79
Forum Groupie 
Joined: November 02 2008 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 08:00 |
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There are so many things the Beatles did musically that jazz musicians were not EVEN DOING at the time. The psychedelic sounding pre-recorded loops, on "Tomorrow Never Knows", the backward guitar parts on "I'm Only Sleeping, George Harrison was working at a sophisticated level of extrapolating Indian scales to the Western setting, something no one else had done in rock music at the time. "Love You To", which is certainly derived from classical Indian. The guitar feedback on "I Feel Fine", the 12 string jangle sound that influenced Roger McGuinn, the reason why the Byrds went electric was because of the Beatles, the ska rhythm on "I Call Your Name", the layered fuzz bass and bass at the fore-front on "Think for Yourself". They basically influenced every early progressive rock artist and probably invented Avant-Pop on Revolver and Psychedelic Pop for that matter on Rubber Soul. "Tomorrow Never Knows” which is proto so many things is maybe the first example of Psychedelic electronic which in turns has so many spin-offs in today's music. Then there is Sgt Pepper look at the album structure and tell me it was innovative at the time. The "overture" and "reprise" at the end, and A Day in the Life, with its use of orchestra, unusual structure, time changes, sound effects and sometimes complete disregard for pop music conventions--all share a lot in common with prog music. Even Robert Fripp got into rock music after hearing "A Day in the Life". Edited by ModernRocker79 - September 11 2009 at 08:02 |
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SgtPepper67
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 530 |
Posted: September 11 2009 at 20:13 |
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That's a perfect explanation. It's so easy to understand, I don't understand why some people need to believe they had some classical musician that wrote their music, how stupid that sounds? well, they had George Martin, that's all the help they needed. |
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In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
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Who's the brain behind The Beatles?
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Sacred 22 wrote: