Do you support universal healthcare?

And yet many in America still will say things about misfortune being directly related to laziness. Many hint at this, many more say it openly, and it is just madness.

Negoba wrote: akamaisondufromage wrote: p0mt3 wrote: Negoba wrote: But, but, America is the bestest bestest and everyone else is just jealous and we're toughest and the smartest and the fattest, well, we earned by all that freedom and we're free and you're all a bunch of commies and we don't want to be commies that's what my daddy or at least the TV told me. Unfortunately, that makes up a bulk of American citizens' mindsets right now. And THAT is anything but funny . . . that's scary.   Here's the thing I find confusing.  You have a NEW president who was heralded as a new beginning in some ways.  He's the first black pres as well.  He won an election.  He won it saying he would reform healthcare.  But the first time he tries to do anything - everybody changes their mind (collectively).???       This is actually what is happening. It's just backlash against Obama's victory. The same fools who yelled for Palin are yelling about healthcare now. The intelligent majority is just stepping back and saying "Whoa this is complicated." The only people coming out with a firm opinion, many are racists, or just Republican operatives. But you repeat something enough times and people begin to believe it. Obama is playing way too cautious, which is often the case when you're in the lead in a competition or the incumbent in this case. He should be calling out madness for what it is, calling on America to join the civilized world, to legislate from our best selves instead of our fear.   He's not playing this well at all.

Edited by akamaisondufromage - September 02 2009 at 16:08

And by the baby-chefs!

akamaisondufromage wrote:   I think it might also have a little to do with diet Raff.  My grandmother was 102 too we managed to hide her from the Panels.  Stuffed her in the cellar whenever they came round

Ah, you may have stuffed grandma in the cellar, but at least you didn't pull the plug on her.  In this country we leave that up to the insurance companies and dagnabbit, we like it that way.

One has to ask oneself, why are the only choices we are given are rationing or rationing?  Rationing by the government or rationing by the health insurance companies.

Personally, since I am not wealthy, take a guess under which of those I would end up better off?
Even with a public option, the wealthy would still have the option of buying into something extra.
What the hell is wrong with having a minimum amount of coverage that takes care of you regardless of your ability to pay?


Edited by Slartibartfast - September 03 2009 at 07:05

My absolute favorite thing about this whole scuffle was someone saying out loud that Stephen Hawking would be dead if he lived in Britain.

Edited by Henry Plainview - September 03 2009 at 00:06

rpe9p wrote:  . . . if you walk into a US hospital missing an arm, they wont turn you away because you cant pay for treatment.  They are required by law to treat you and make sure your wounds have been adequately taken care of . . .

Yes, and where do you think they get the money to pay for those emergency operations? The US citizen's tax dollars! Except in our current insurance system, the management of said tax dollars are grossly inefficient. Would you rather remain in the debt we are in, plus have sloppy management of tax-payed healthcare, OR would you rather be a little bit further in debt, but as a result have a more efficient, government-managed insurance policy where those who can't play for their own healthcare are provided for, while wasting less tax payer money?

This has nothing to do with belittling conservatism; it has everything to do with making decisions that help people. I can't help it if more Conservatives seem to be misinformed than Liberals. That's just how it has come to be. Conservatism as an ideal is not under attack, here. Misinformation and fear-mongering is.

Don't worry, you'll get your wish, because apparently next Wednesday Obama will announce that his public option plan is finished. Because Liberals are spineless, yellow-bellied cowards who won't stand their ground. Looks like our healthcare will remain in the toilet, fellow Americans.

rpe9p wrote: Just so people in other countries know, if you walk into a US hospital missing an arm, they wont turn you away because you cant pay for treatment.  They are required by law to treat you and make sure your wounds have been adequately taken care of.  They just they wont give you any expensive tests or pay for your cancer treatment for you, and for the most part im fine with that.

Well, that opinion is genuinely f**ked...

http://spectator.org/assets/mc/cartoons/8.24.2009_Jefferson_on_ObamaCare.gif

rpe9p wrote: Yeah Obama would do a lot better if he adopted your strategy and just started belittling conservatives because obviously anyone who believes in fiscal conservatism has been tricked by the big businesses or is downright stupid. Its difficult to argue the side of fiscal responsibility on an internet forum because there is usually a large liberal majority, but one very simple thing that you must realize people in the US are basing their views on is the fact that the US has just gone through a huge recession which Obama has tried to fix by loads and loads of deficit spending.  Americans see this healthcare bill and the fact that it will put us another $1 trillion more in debt at least and maybe they feel that this isnt the time to insitute this health care system. Just so people in other countries know, if you walk into a US hospital missing an arm, they wont turn you away because you cant pay for treatment.  They are required by law to treat you and make sure your wounds have been adequately taken care of.  They just they wont give you any expensive tests or pay for your cancer treatment for you, and for the most part im fine with that.

Padraic wrote: Like most other issues, it doesn't seem like a discussion on the actual details is possible here.

What are you, a communist?