Do you support universal healthcare?

I support the universe.

Absolutely, it's ridiculous to think otherwise. Non-supporting it is against Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Padraic wrote: I support the universe.

Wow, Atlas ain't got nothin' on you.

Universal healthcare is a no brainer in a civilised society, I would have thought...

Having grown up with the NHS, and having had short spells in hospitals over the years for trivial things, I have no complants about the service. The treatment my father recieved while dying with Cancer was `second to none. The same goes for my mother after she had a stroke. I've no complaints.

That f***ing Tory d!ckhead who recently went to the States and scared the sh!t out of the American people by running down the NHS, making reference to all the horror stories of people giving birth or dying on trolleys in the UK, should be strung up by his nuts and shot to ribbons! Take my word for it, please dont believe a single word that comes out of the mouth of any UK politican, especially a puffed little Tory sh!thead.

Bear this in mind; you will only ever hear the horror stories. Good news is no news as far as the media is concerned, and busy city hospitals in the US will have their own horror stories, under the current system. The NHS serves a huge population and is the one last institution that the British can be truly proud of.

Epignosis wrote: Doctors in the US are essentially private businessmen.  They go to school and have to foot the bill themselves (grants aside) like most anyone else.  They have to invest money in beginning a practice.  Etc. What if, for whatever reason, people no longer decided to become physicians and nurses anymore?  Folks just decided the field isn't profitable enough to get into (or wasn't interesting- again, whatever reason).

Well, enjoy your next career as a Wal-Mart greeter or a fast food employee.
Seriously it must be nice to have the luxury to be able invest all that time and money in a career and just quit.


v v v


Edited by Slartibartfast - August 30 2009 at 12:47

Epignosis wrote: I've written novels from time to time, and this subject always made me wonder... Doctors in the US are essentially private businessmen.  They go to school and have to foot the bill themselves (grants aside) like most anyone else.  They have to invest money in beginning a practice.  Etc. What if, for whatever reason, people no longer decided to become physicians and nurses anymore?  Folks just decided the field isn't profitable enough to get into (or wasn't interesting- again, whatever reason). What would our government's course of action be in such a scenario (especially with a national health care system)?  Institute a mandatory draft in which certain people are forced into medical school? Just one of those weird "what if" ideas that came to me.

This is certainly a very intriguing (and possibly chilling) idea. I can't speak for the US but in the UK the practice of medicine is still seen as a 'calling' and not purely a 'career choice' by most of its General Practitioners (and similarly with the nursing profession to a certain extent). But yes, as you remark, this happy state of affairs rests upon the continuing altruism of those entering the profession (and let's face it here in Australia where I now live there is a shortage of Doctors which is currently addressed by attracting GPs from overseas) These people work obscenely long hours due to staff shortages and no amount of remuneration will ever recompense an individual for the loss of precious free time with their own loved ones.

Although the healthcare system in the UK is far from perfect it does have two constituent parts which seem to be mutually beneficial i.e the Private Sector attracts the wealthier patients who wish to avoid what can be long waiting times in the Public Sector (NHS) for non-life threatening operations and this takes some of the strain off the limited resources of the latter.

I think this compromise solution works reasonably well and for some of the reasons you have outlined above, is infinitely preferable to an exclusively private or public route.

It is sadly inevitable that some people will always abuse whatever liberties and rights you grant them, but this fact alone does not sanction the creation of a control system designed to quantify the moral worthiness of recipients.

Epignosis, you are already a recording artist and a novelist, do you paint as well ?

Epignosis wrote: Paint the town red!

With beer, I'd have to guess.

Edited by Slartibartfast - August 30 2009 at 12:46

We have universal health care here in Scandinavia. Here in Norway we need to cover some minor fees as well, but not to the extent that many are blocked out of using the system.
And anything serious will be treated no matter if you have the money or not.

Here as in many other countries some doctors are grossly overpaid - that's a system fault it's hard to do something about - but apart from that it's a pretty good system.

And I find it increasingly strange to know that there are western countries against this kind of system in this day and age.

Windhawk wrote: We have universal health care here in Scandinavia. Here in Norway we need to cover some minor fees as well, but not to the extent that many are blocked out of using the system. And anything serious will be treated no matter if you have the money or not. Here as in many other countries some doctors are grossly overpaid - that's a system fault it's hard to do something about - but apart from that it's a pretty good system. And I find it increasingly strange to know that there are western countries against this kind of system in this day and age.

Grossly overpaid?
yeah, 10+ years of schooling, thousands of dollars in debt, incredible stress,
seems to me that they deserve to be highly paid.

Padraic wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: Doctors in the US are essentially private businessmen.  They go to school and have to foot the bill themselves (grants aside) like most anyone else.  They have to invest money in beginning a practice.  Etc. What if, for whatever reason, people no longer decided to become physicians and nurses anymore?  Folks just decided the field isn't profitable enough to get into (or wasn't interesting- again, whatever reason). Well, enjoy your next career as a Wal-Mart greeter or a fast food employee. Seriously it must be nice to have the luxury to be able invest all that time and money in a career and just quit. Uh, I think Rob meant people deciding not to enter the medical profession in the first place, i.e. not going to medical school.

Yeah, you're right, I misread that.  What more profitable enough fields are they going to go into instead?  What if most jobs meant a paycheck that most people can't live off of?  What if the standard of living for most folks were under attack from those with the most power and money?  What if the regulations that were put into place to keep the economy from going whack were dismantled so that those at the top were able to accumulate vast amounts of wealth at the expense of the people that really do work hard for a living?

Sorry about that, I should have moved it over to the economical discussion thread, though the two do intertwine.


Edited by Slartibartfast - August 30 2009 at 14:11