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Finnforest View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2009 at 22:46
Well 3 of those four are pretty spectacular.  Celeste hasn't held up as well for me though I do respect it . I'd try one of Basso's first two albums before Celeste.  Read his Bio, both are among the finest examples of classically influenced prog.  The first is more rocking, the second more classical and perhaps a masterpiece.  Good luck!!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 01:47
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

One hell of a review, Linus.  You are the man.  ClapClapClap
 
 Forse Le Lucciole Non Si Amano Più by LOCANDA DELLE FATE album cover Studio Album, 1977
4.05 | 106 ratings

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Forse Le Lucciole Non Si Amano Più
Locanda Delle Fate Rock Progressivo Italiano

Review by LinusW
Collaborator Italian Prog Team

3 stars A product of a second wave of Rock Progressivo Italiano, Locanda Delle Fate's debut (and only studio album during the 70s) never really grabs me. And if you read all the other slightly sceptic reviews for this album, you'll notice we're all pretty much in agreement as to why.

What you'll find on this album is remarkably pleasant; most often mellow, by-the-book symphonic prog. The rich, subtle arrangements of Genesis, with democratic distribution of guitar and keys in intertwined, delicate arrangements. You know?that slowly moving melange where you find dynamics in a smaller scale rather than in the bigger structures. Add to that some of Camel's syrupy feel-good melody-making and dreaminess à la The Snow Goose taken a bit further, played with silken gloves and almost fairy-tale timbre and motifs at times. The more Italian bits are the prominent, gladly rollicking piano that enriches so much of the peninsula's music. There is some nice flute interplay to be found as well. All in all, not much to complain about objectively, if you're interested in this type of sound. Lush and warm for the most part, often complex and intricate arrangements to enjoy along the way, with this laid-back, romantic atmosphere likely encountered before in (for example) PFM's or Banco's lighter compositions if you've dabbled in the sub-genre before. Leonardo Sasso's vocals even remind me a bit of Francesco DiGiacomo at times, only less intense and operatic. And to add another positive thing, the textures can be a real treat with the full sound dual keys and dual guitar can provide.

It is truly disappointing then, that as the album unfolds, things never really change. You're just drenched in a seemingly endless assault of what's mentioned above. There is absolutely no album dynamics, but just this sweet, symphonic, gluey mass to wade through. It's just boringly flat. Even worse is that when given time, you'll start to notice how uninspired some of the melodies and motifs are. They feel like routine, based on instruction more than the heat of the moment. And I miss the joy that could have been such a great complement to this music. And when the band honestly tries to stir things up a little, with some heavy guitar riffs and a little contrast, there is this clearly noticeable conflict present; a will to break out of the mould as well as being eager not to disturb the oh-so-precious flow already established. And in holding this sacred, the album loses a lot of energy and ear-opening effect to preserve a tedious consistency. Where is the drama!? As a result, the album easily drifts away from you and takes place as nice background music, but nothing else.

Locanda Delle Fate is obviously a group that had the potential to make something great, with the assembled musicianship present, but this, the safe way, wasn't the way to realise that. I certainly understand the raving reviews about the heart-wrenching beauty and romantic grandeur, but if you scrape a bit on that glossy surface, you'll perhaps realise the flaws of the concept as well. A bit too derivative, a bit to flat, a bit too uninteresting. And far from an essential RPI work.

Choose for yourself.

3 stars, by a hair.

//LinusW




I will put 4 stars really




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 06:21
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Ok, my favorite RPI right now are QVL II, Semiramis, and Le Orme's Uomo in that order right now.

This is what I'm planning to get next:

Osanna: Palepoli

Rovescio: Contaminazione

Celeste: Principe

Giganti: Terra en Boca

I realize these are not exactly similar albums but I found RPI by asking for prog that was heavily classically influenced which how I found QVL. I also like heavy and challenging which led me to Semiramis. So I scattered some from those ideas. Should be plenty of listening. Thanks for the suggestions.

Contaminazione!  I was going to mention that one too earlier, based on your love of the band Quella Vecchia Locanda.  It's different, but shares the direct classical quote approach used.  Palepoli was an early catch of mine, really love it.  Terra en Boca I don't know.

As for Celeste, I find when I introduce people to RPI they will inevitably respond to that one record - unless they are total hard rock or jazz heads, in which case they'll usually like it least.  I will agree with Finnforest that it has not held up for me, except it's one of those albums that is perfection for that one mood (or if you want to turn your music analyzer on and just listen to the brilliant arrangements, appreciate the construction and the pastoral pace).

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 07:48
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Ok, my favorite RPI right now are QVL II, Semiramis, and Le Orme's Uomo in that order right now.

This is what I'm planning to get next:

Osanna: Palepoli

Rovescio: Contaminazione

Celeste: Principe

Giganti: Terra en Boca

 

I realize these are not exactly similar albums but I found RPI by asking for prog that was heavily classically influenced which how I found QVL. I also like heavy and challenging which led me to Semiramis. So I scattered some from those ideas. Should be plenty of listening. Thanks for the suggestions.

  you'll love them Jay. Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 08:18
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

...

I realize these are not exactly similar albums but I found RPI by asking for prog that was heavily classically influenced which how I found QVL. I also like heavy and challenging which led me to Semiramis. So I scattered some from those ideas. Should be plenty of listening. Thanks for the suggestions.

Very smart in that regard is the self-titled Corte dei Miracoli release.  There is a Franck-like quality in the manner of composition (not the sound, the treatment).  Brilliant record.  I had typed more, but deleted it.  This is nuts, there's just too much.  You go with your list and you'll love it.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 10:54
Originally posted by Luca Pacchiarini Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

1967/1976, well.... perhaps it's better to recommend the "essential" albums first, and introduce the rarities later....
 
Well... Depends. In my humble opinion, there are rarities that hold more than an 'essential' album!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 11:10
Originally posted by 1967/ 1976 1967/ 1976 wrote:

Originally posted by Luca Pacchiarini Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

1967/1976, well.... perhaps it's better to recommend the "essential" albums first, and introduce the rarities later....
 
Well... Depends. In my humble opinion, there are rarities that hold more than an 'essential' album!


Right on Mandi!  Some of the lesser know gems are dearer to my heart than many of the "essential" Italian albums.   I think a mix of both is a healthy way to look at any genre.
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 11:15
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by 1967/ 1976 1967/ 1976 wrote:

Originally posted by Luca Pacchiarini Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

1967/1976, well.... perhaps it's better to recommend the "essential" albums first, and introduce the rarities later....
 
Well... Depends. In my humble opinion, there are rarities that hold more than an 'essential' album!


Right on Mandi!  Some of the lesser know gems are dearer to my heart than many of the "essential" Italian albums.   I think a mix of both is a healthy way to look at any genre.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 11:45
I was reading again through the RPI description on the sub-genre page (once again, grrrreat job).  This sentence struck me: "Most musicians had more or less strong left-wing leanings (the prime example being Area), while the few examples of openly right-wing bands never managed to break out of obscurity, or gain more than a strictly cult following."  Exactly what RPI bands were these openly right-wing bands?  I ask because I am left in my belefs (no need to go into all that, no one wants a politics thread here).  I'd find it rather funny and pretty disconcerting to learn that, as a person who barely understands Italian, I were unwittingly listening to and getting into right winger's music!  I also ask because I'm fascinated to see over and over again just how little of beauty the right can really do or say, or feels compelled to, and will be duly amazed if one of the albums I consider beautiful turns out "implicated."

There's a phrase people use in the US when they want to say that there is little connection or fellow-feeling between themselves and someone, or their group and another.  "There's no love lost..."  In my case the phrase would typically go "there's no love lost between me and the right wing."  But in my case there is love lost, because I lost my older brother, perhaps irrevocably, to the crazed neo-conservative end of the American right.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 11:53
Interesting question AK.  I defer to Andrea(s) or Raffa who have more insight to the politics.  I know a band named Janus was considered right and a few others.

I personally don't care about the politics of the musician much, or the religious beliefs, so long as the artist is not trying to evangelize me religiously...that is a real turn off to me.  Political propaganda I can much more easily ignore than religious. 

I'm only in it for the music....which is why foreign language prog is my favorite. 
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 12:04
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Interesting question AK.  I defer to Andrea(s) or Raffa who have more insight to the politics.  I know a band named Janus was considered right and a few others.

I personally don't care about the politics of the musician much, or the religious beliefs, so long as the artist is not trying to evangelize me religiously...that is a real turn off to me.  Political propaganda I can much more easily ignore than religious. 

I'm only in it for the music....which is why foreign language prog is my favorite. 
All sensible policy.  I am in it for the art myself.  The political can be ignored, or even laughed at, more easily than the religious.  And there is definitely a certain grace involved in not knowing the meaning of the words you are hearing (it's no secret that, for instance, a lot of opera have really basic and silly libretti).  I just can't or won't entirely ignore the social aspect, and once one says that then they also have to accept the burden of not misunderstanding the social aspect.  I'm not saying I get out the magnifying glass and check every last particle of everything, but I certainly would like to at least know which of these bands were right wing.

So, Raffa, Andrea, maybe Luca?


Edited by American Khatru - August 16 2009 at 12:05

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 12:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 16:31
Originally posted by 1967/ 1976 1967/ 1976 wrote:

Originally posted by Luca Pacchiarini Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

1967/1976, well.... perhaps it's better to recommend the "essential" albums first, and introduce the rarities later....
 
Well... Depends. In my humble opinion, there are rarities that hold more than an 'essential' album!
Yes, of course, I know, I love many rarer albums, and many of them have a greater artistic value than more famous recordings, but I mean....  FOR THE UNINITIATED....
 
if someone else is just starting to know RPI, it could be a bit misleading starting with Fabio Celi e Gli Infermieri if that person has never listened to, say, Osanna, Balletto or Jumbo....
 
At least that's what I think.
 
Starting with the seminal, most influential albums, and then seeing all the greatests of the rest, once you've been uninitiated.
 
Also because some of the more obscure albums are more difficult to get into, so, if someone is entering in a new genre...perhaps later  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 17:06
AK, Raff cannot post right now but emailed me this bit about Italian politics, to answer your query below.

As far as I know, the only two openly right-wing bands in RPI were 
Janus and La Compagnia dell'Anello (the latter is still active), though
there may have been others that never recorded anything. The truth is,
the Italian right-wingers were never very big on arts or culture, in
spite of their complaints about being discriminated - though they are in
power now, their artistic output is still negligible. On the other hand,
Museo Rosenbach were wrongly indicted of being right-wingers because of
the contents of their album, Zarathustra - Nietzsche has always been
wrongly associated with Fascism and Nazism (as their Italian Wiki entry
points out). Unfortunately, things were like that at the time, and with
good reason - less than thirty years had passed since the end of the
war, and the Cold War mentality made sure that the left had no chances
to become part of a government coalition, not to mention that a new rise
of Fascism in Italy has always been a lurking danger.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 18:37
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

AK, Raff cannot post right now but emailed me this bit about Italian politics, to answer your query below.

... right-wingers were never very big on arts or culture, in 
spite of their complaints about being discriminated

We get that same routine hereLOLLOLLOL.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 19:24
Originally posted by American Khatru American Khatru wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Interesting question AK.  I defer to Andrea(s) or Raffa who have more insight to the politics.  I know a band named Janus was considered right and a few others.

I personally don't care about the politics of the musician much, or the religious beliefs, so long as the artist is not trying to evangelize me religiously...that is a real turn off to me.  Political propaganda I can much more easily ignore than religious. 

I'm only in it for the music....which is why foreign language prog is my favorite. 
All sensible policy.  I am in it for the art myself.  The political can be ignored, or even laughed at, more easily than the religious.  And there is definitely a certain grace involved in not knowing the meaning of the words you are hearing (it's no secret that, for instance, a lot of opera have really basic and silly libretti).  I just can't or won't entirely ignore the social aspect, and once one says that then they also have to accept the burden of not misunderstanding the social aspect.  I'm not saying I get out the magnifying glass and check every last particle of everything, but I certainly would like to at least know which of these bands were right wing.

So, Raffa, Andrea, maybe Luca?
 
Of course, apart for some cases, it's difficult to label a band as right wing, especially in Italy, in the context of the 70's...
 
First of all, because the main audience of rock festivals was made up of young people and students with left-wing sympathies, so, publicly saying "we support the right wing" could kill your hopes of commercial success. 
Just look at what happened to Museo Rosenbach, after someone accused them of being fascists (of course they weren't... the music press was so superficial in that episode)
Politics was ENORMOUSLY linked to the music in those days in Italy... I read a book called "Anni 70, Generazione Rock" were many musicians of the era (and some prog ones as well) were asked about this topic... I recall reading Rustici's interview (guitarist of Cervello) in which he said that the car of the band was once attacked from guys with wood sticks because their music wasn't considered "left wing enough".
So, in that scenario, the political views of a group conditioned the fate of the band.
 
All the left-wing groups proudly showed their political sympathies, while... 
some right-wing groups hid their political tendencies, pretending to be left-wing to obtain the favour of the young audience, while other right-wing groups clearly admitted their views.
In that case, these right-wing bands had an "underground" following, in the MSI circles (Movimento Sociale Italiano) recording in almost clandestine conditions.
 
The funny and tragic thing is that the few groups who chose to stay neutral were accused too... they were attacked both by the left and the right wing...
 
Well,  RPI and politics... an enormous amount of lines could be written about this topic...
I don't know... how much are you familiar with italian history? Because if you need a "historical background", I might write something similar, or give you the link for a similar paragraph... do you know about the "Lead Years"? 
Since that's very important for understanding a bit more of RPI...at least it helped me a bit.
 
 
Anyway, back to your original question, the groups who are generally labeled as right wing were:
 
Janus
 
Nuovo Canto Popolare
 
Carrè Ladich Marchal
 
Compagnia Dell'Anello
 
Facts: the first three bands were from Roma, and in all these projects, the drummer was Mario Ladich.
(and, stranger fact, no one of these bands are on this site Wink)
Their albums are very rare (for the reasons I wrote above) and I haven't them... but the people who have them say they're pretty average...nothing special, even bad at times.
 
 
About JANUS, the most representative band of the right wing...
(just to give you an idea of the social and political climate of those years....)
One of their musicians, Stefano Recchioni ,was killed during a right-wing demonstration (here's an article in italian, http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strage_di_Acca_Larentia)
 
 
Anyway.... sorry for the long winded post LOL
that's pretty much what I know about right wing and italian prog... hope it helps
 
And I have to concur with who said that the right wing in Italy has never been creative and original in music...
 


Edited by Luca Pacchiarini - August 17 2009 at 05:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2009 at 00:27
Well, this is another one...
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2009 at 06:10
Most of this is news to me, I'm embarrassed to say.  I'm learning a lot from this site though.  Feel free to be as long winded in your posts as you like, Luca.Approve 

I don't know the music of any of these five bands you two named.  I've got Acroama's myspace on in the background.  It's so so to be honest, jammy.  No one could accuse them of being big on ideas.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2009 at 06:16
Originally posted by Luca Pacchiarini Luca Pacchiarini wrote:


 
Well,  RPI and politics... an enormous amount of lines could be written about this topic...
I don't know... how much are you familiar with italian history? Because if you need a "historical background", I might write something similar, or give you the link for a similar paragraph... do you know about the "Lead Years"? 
Since that's very important for understanding a bit more of RPI...at least it helped me a bit.
 
 


OK, this is Raff... I would normally avoid posting using Micky's account, but I feel I have to say something at this point.

Luca, your profile says you could very easily be my son... You might have read things in a book, I WAS THERE.  I was born at the end of 1960, and remember the 'lead years' quite well. As regards the 'historical background', it is already there - in the first section of the RPI definition, which probably you should read before offering to write something that other people have already done. That def cost me and the others quite a bit of work, and I find it a bit sad that a fellow Italian has not bothered to read it.

As to the bands not being included on PA, my very politically incorrect opinion is the following: they should have thanked their lucky stars to have been allowed to EXIST, let alone to record anything. I know the younger generations seem to have no clue about such things, but there is an article in our Constitution that forbids the reformation of the Fascist Party - in a serious country, those guys would not even have been around, or would been forced even more underground than they were at the time. Italy is not the USA, with their freedom of speech and all that - WW II had ended just thirty years before, and there were people who remembered well what it had meant. My parents both did, as did most of my other relatives.

Sorry for the rant, but I think such things should be said. By all means add those bands, if you feel they have enough merit (and you said yourself they don't), but please, let's stop presenting them as victims of the intolerance of the left-wingers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2009 at 08:03
Originally posted by American Khatru American Khatru wrote:

Most of this is news to me, I'm embarrassed to say.  I'm learning a lot from this site though.  Feel free to be as long winded in your posts as you like, Luca.Approve 

I don't know the music of any of these five bands you two named.  I've got Acroama's myspace on in the background.  It's so so to be honest, jammy.  No one could accuse them of being big on ideas.
 
Acroama never recorded an album and their music was made "en amateur"... The only decent album coming from bands of the "right-wing" is probably "Terra di Thule" by la compagnia dell'Anello: I've posted some links to youtube videos above, here you can find another link for more info:
 
 

The video that you can find on this link is taken from of a documentary by the Italian National Broadcast RAI 2. It deals with music and politics...

 
 


Edited by andrea - August 17 2009 at 08:15
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