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TheProgtologist 
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
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 Posted: August 16 2009 at 01:55 |
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After reading through the last 5-6 pages of this thread I'll be perfectly blunt.I don't really think members here should use PA as a platform to promote their music.It reeks of nepotism,and then you have problems like because of one negative review. |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 01:56 |
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Oh quit ragging on Tony, just because he's willing to take on work that no one else is, he's one of the people that keeps this thing alive ... enjoy. Edited by Easy Money - August 16 2009 at 04:55 |
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Easy Money
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 02:14 |
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Hey Alberto, I was being sarcastic and trying to make a point. Obviously it would be easy to use PA as a promotional tool if you were a member and decided to use the site that way. I'm not saying that people have done that, I'm just pointing out that it is possible. I've been a pro musician for decades and I I know the ends and outs of promotion. I've recorded some decent demos over the years that got me gigs with: Mr Bungle, Primus, Faith No More (Hi Billy, he probably doesn't remember me),Nuerosis (Hi Scott, he might remember me), Marc Almond, The Ohio Players (Hi Sugar Foot, the nicest rock star I ever met), Black Flag, No Means No and I also made an unused avant demo with Gary Willis from Tribal Tech (we go way back) and some others I can't remember. For some reason, I'm not sure what it is, I really don't feel inclined to put any of these demos on PA. I guess others feel differently. Edited by Easy Money - August 16 2009 at 02:15 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: November 18 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4900 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 02:29 |
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That's fine. I'm still going to try to get my project added to this site when completed, as well. Just so you know.  Being on PA is actually quite a status boost; we've seen it happen with The Tea Club, Edensong, etc. I'm not saying this site is the ONLY way a band can get recognized in Prog circles, but it certainy doesn't hurt. I think getting added anywhere with status like this site is just smart advertizing; has nothing to do with whether or not you're a member. I would still try to get added here even if I weren't a regular poster/Collaborator. |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 02:38 |
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I don't thinks artists should be on the main page of PA unless they are actual bands who do gigs (excepting electronic musicians of course).
It's way to easy to put out a CD these days, I bet in a couple weeks or months we are going to see lots and lots of independtly produced CDs being introduced to PA by PA members. Do you guys really want to see King Crimson, Mars Volta and Yes replaced by Me, Dean and PROGMONSTER 2000, or whatever his name is these days (sorry Dean to use you as an example, I like your music). P.S. We could have a seperate genre or thread for home recording CDs by site members. I would feel a lot better about submitting my own demos if that was how it was handled. Edited by Easy Money - August 16 2009 at 06:58 |
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Chris S
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 03:36 |
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For what it is worth......................where a CD/Release is official for commercial sale and the muisc is " prog worthy" for addition to PA and it is not a demo/bootleg then I for one cannot see any reason why it could not be here.
Legit is legit, it cannot be any other way. If a member's work is accepted/rejected on musical merits and authenticity................Great stuff either way
 Inside " banner' type advertising on the forum to plug unofficial releases should be kept to PM's/General music discussions unless added as it will smack of nepotism.
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 03:52 |
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^ The problem is that this is a social network and it is easy for people to fall into a symbiotic relationship of helping each other out with support of their CD leading to unrealisticly high ratings in reviews, I'm not saying this has happened, but it could.
I would like to think that PA is mostly a musicological resource for documenting the ongoing development of Progressive Rock and it's contributors and I think mixing personal promotion with that dilutes our purpose. I'm all for a seperate area for personal promotion. Edited by Easy Money - August 16 2009 at 04:02 |
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Pekka
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 03 2006 Location: Espoo, Finland Status: Offline Points: 6457 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 04:09 |
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I've really got to try out some Phideaux tracks, if I enjoy his music as much as his forum posts I'll soon be celebrating finding a new favourite band.
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 04:56 |
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Phffff... I don't mind you using me as an example - but lumping me with PM2K is another matter.
 ...There are a number of reasons why I would disqualify myself from ever being added to the PA, and that could be one of them.
  "Bands that do gigs" is not enough/too much - some non-gigging bands should still qualify, and some like Aaron (Man Overboard) have gigged and still don't qualify, but whatever criteria you pick there will always be exceptions. The Internet is changing the music business faster than the music business can adapt to cope with that change - live music is on the decrease, self-released music is on the increase - we have to take into account the current state of the music scene even if that means being dragged screaming and kicking into the 21st century.
Having said that, I think we do need rules and standards and the genre teams must be allowed to exclude bands they do not think are ready to be added to the archive based upon whatever criteria they think fits. I don't mean "quality control" - we should not be the guardians of good music or the judge, jury and excecutioners of musicianship - that is the role of the Reviewers, but on something less easy to quantify (but you know it when you hear it).
There are a number of ways to promote yourself on the PA without being added, without spamming the forum and without being an utter troll about it - all new bands start off by playing to their circle of friends and the PA forum is just another circle of (virtual) friends - all artists need exposure and the PA could be a good way of achieving that.
I believe that we should be promoting and encouraging musicians whatever their status (if I had more free time I would take on the Unsigned Bands forum and manage it like Angelo did, unfortunately as it is I don't do my "day job" on here as well as I should without taking on more work). We've seen some good bands come out of the Unsigned Bands forum in recent times and heard some excellent music from forum members. All artists know if they are unsigned or not, even if the status of "unsigned" no longer means not signed to a major label - those that don't are deluding themselves and that will ultimately lead nowhere.
To date the music projects of only three forum members have been added to the PA (we have a few other members whose bands have been added, but they did not become "regular" posters here until after they were accepted/rejected) - out of 4500 bands I don't believe that reflects badly on the PA or shows us as a bunch of self-serving nepotists and sycophants. However, if the PA is their sole source of promotion (other than MySpace and Last|FM) then I think we/they may have a problem and they should not be added to the main database as a legitimate Prog Artist.
/my two new pence worth as an ordinary forum member and unsigned artist Edited by Dean - August 16 2009 at 04:56 |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 05:31 |
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^ I like that last sentence Dean. I would also like to qualify my statements as a regular PA member, avid musicologist and long time pro musician.
Not as some sort of psuedo 'authority figure' who was asked to help with PA as an admins. |
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20435 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 06:13 |
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I agree with jJdy
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Ricochet
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 06:20 |
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Dear Lord.  He even mentions what albums he wants Phideaux to send him next. |
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Easy Money
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 06:29 |
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It's probably past time for me to shut-up, but I couldn't help noticing that his last two reviews were 5 star by people who only reviewed his album and no other albums.
He's already made a revealing sarcastic remark about having his Mom help out, I guess the other review would be Dad. |
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Tony R
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 06:49 |
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We need to frame some guidlines relating to what is and what isn't fit to be added to the archives. How do you quantify this, well maybe we need a few experienced heads who can decide whether a CD is of merchantable quality. Is there are real potential audience? Would Prog Radio stations play it? Would people buy it? Is there a real potential career for the artist?
I think these are genuine ideas to consider. Progarchives is striving to be the number one Prog Rock resource on the Internet. It is not a "come one, come all" platform like Myspace or the other sites which provide an opportunity for budding musicians to reach an audience. The database is for the finished product, the viable artist, the real deal. Not the hopeful hobbyist. I think we need to keep our eye on the ball. Yes, let's provide a "forum" for unsigned bands, promote them even but also remember what the database represents. |
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TheProgtologist
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 06:59 |
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That review needs deleted!
Blatant ratings manipulation,and something needs to be done about it.
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Easy Money
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 07:02 |
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^ I'd suggest you look at a lot of the reviews on many of his albums, lots and lots of highly dubious activity. The sarcastic remarks about Mom's help etc were a bit tell-tale too.
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Windhawk
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11401 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 07:14 |
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Then again, for every self-released album of dubious quality we can easily find a signed act with albums of even more dubious quality. I have a few examples handy in case you find that hard to believe - signed acts with sonic explorations that will fry your brain and traumatize your perception of musical enjoyment forevermore ;-) |
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 07:15 |
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I agree with this 100% (and then some)
The guidelines need to be there - In this case I don't think the "Unsigned" guidelines are enough, (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35133), but they are a start. Those guidelines were the result of a long discussion in the CZ (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43731) - the problem there for us was trying to decide what constitutes "a CD is of merchantable quality" ... I think we need to start a similar CZ thread that details what does and what does not qualify as eligible for inclusion in the PA.
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Epignosis
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32553 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 07:39 |
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Someone tried. It got closed. |
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Tony R
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 07:46 |
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Tell me more Epignosis.
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Phideaux wrote:
Lots of people on here have CDs out, let's do it.