The Stranglers

chopper wrote: When did The Stranglers ever sound like Yes and Genesis?

many many times. but I have given up fighting for the Stranglers. most people in here confuse image with music when it comes to the Stranglers. anyone who listens to them with an open mind should realize how very progressive they are. I once made a checklist of the criteria which are being used to decide whether a band is prog or not, and the Stranglers scored on all but 3 or 4 of these criteria, which is an excellent result. there are many bands in the archives whose score is a lot lower.
the rejection of the Stranglers are the reason why I asked for having my status of prog reviewer removed. if I am so fundamentally wrong about them I can not be trusted with this status. of course I do believe that I am right, but the majority was against me

I can remember walking into a record shop with a friend, both of us prog fans,and hearing the newly released Stranglers debut,'Rattus Norvegicus'.Both of us were blown away by the album.I purchased it immediately.My first 'Punk' purchase.

When I told the 'real punks' at school,they laughed at me saying that was typical of a prog fan.The Stranglers weren't punk just prog dressed up as punk and they (The Stranglers) had keyboards and that was not punk and neither were XTC,so there! Ah,from the mouths of babes...er,sorry,punks.

Now,did I ever tell you that I saw The Stranglers at the infamous Battersea Park gig when Peter Gabriel supported them?...No.Well make yourself comfortable and I will tell you....Picture goes hazy...

Edited by Man Erg - August 08 2009 at 13:19

Exactly,Dean.

I was never drawn to the 'real punk' bands. Funnily enough after the initial swathes of bands,and there weren't many,the bands that got to make at least a second album started to make more,for want of a better word,intricate records.John Lydon formed P.I.L. who were massively influenced by bands like Faust,Can and dub.The Clash started to release double and triple albums and the bands that formed under the influence of The Clash and The Pistols formed the New Wave/Indie brigade.   

NotAProghead wrote: Hell, it seems Stranglers justify their name. First they 'strangled' Erik, now Jean. I think it's childish and absolutely not a reason to leave PA (like Erik did) or to refuse to be a reviewer.

just to make it clear: I did not resign because I was peeved (though I don't deny I was); that would have been childish indeed. no, I resigned out of a sense of responsibility. the  Stranglers are in my opinion not a borderline case or merely prog-related, they are full-fledged prog and always have been to my ears. it is therefore obvious that my opinion of what "prog" means is totally different from the majority of the viewers of this forum. a prog reviewer, on the other hand, should be of the same opinion what prog really is as this majority; it is this criterion which makes him or her fit for the post. since I did not fit that criterion, it was an act of responsibility to resign from that post. that was the reason I resigned, not because I was peeved


Edited by BaldJean - August 09 2009 at 05:10

Padraic wrote: BaldJean wrote: a prog reviewer, on the other hand, should be of the same opinion what prog really is as this majority There is absolutely no need for this to be the case.

Seconded. You get promoted for what you write. What you write is up to you.

BaldJean wrote: Ricochet wrote: Padraic wrote: BaldJean wrote: a prog reviewer, on the other hand, should be of the same opinion what prog really is as this majority There is absolutely no need for this to be the case. Seconded. You get promoted for what you write. What you write is up to you. ah yes, but our ideas about what prog really is should be more or less the same. you don't make a vegetarian chairman of the association of cattle breeders

"more or less", viz., not identical.  I'm sure if we sat down and went over thousands of "prog" bands our agreement would exceed 99%.  But what's done is done; your quality of reviews earned you the PR tag, and I would wager almost everyone was sad to see you resign it.

I myself want people like you as collabs - I want that disagreement and diversity of opinion.  Everyone benefits from it.


Edited by Padraic - August 09 2009 at 09:52

Jean, I know very little about this band and thus have no opinion on that.  But I have seen enough of your posts to know that you are an intelligent music fan who makes a positive contribution to the site.  There is a wide divergence of opinion on this site to just about any question you pose....and if we all resigned when we felt we were going against the grain, there would be nobody left here!

I hope very much you will reconsider and have Admin plug you back in.  You are an asset to the community. 

BaldJean wrote: Ricochet wrote: Padraic wrote: BaldJean wrote: a prog reviewer, on the other hand, should be of the same opinion what prog really is as this majority There is absolutely no need for this to be the case. Seconded. You get promoted for what you write. What you write is up to you. ah yes, but our ideas about what prog really is should be more or less the same. you don't make a vegetarian chairman of the association of cattle breeders

npjnpj wrote: Sorry, but that decision of yours is just plain ridiculous.   I don't think I've ever come across more diverse ideas of what prog actually is than on this site, discussions and threads about just this have filled countless pages over time.   The fact itself that there are so many different views on this, is a central essance of this site, and the acceptance of all these diverse opinions by all concerned, including practically all admins etc. is an invaluable commodity here.   If this was not accepted here,it would either result in either a centralised view of a chosen few and lead to an instant expulsion of a large part of artists featured here, or a fragmentation into a dozen or more warring fractions.   I'm sorry to say that I find your status resignation quite childish, in spite of what you say.   And to take the edge of it, here's a smiley for you:

You have to know Jean as well as I do to fully understand why she resigned. She was very disappointed that people did not really listen to the music but went by image instead to judge The Stranglers. And you can't tell her it ain't so; Jean knows a lot about musical theory, she learned it with her piano lessons, and understands the complexity of their songs. That's why it was no question at all for her that The Stranglers are prog. She even presented the checklist of criteria by which this site supposedly goes to decide whether a band is prog or not, and they fully qualified on that list. So it was clear to her that the decision was based on nothing but prejudice.
She was very disappointed that the people in here are so much led astray by the image of a band rather than take the content of their music into account, and she did not want to be seen as a representative of this.in her opinion shallow attitude; I know my Jean too well there. But she is too polite to say so, so she chose to resign using a false pretense as reason. She does not care if people think her decision is childish; she'd rather take that than be offensive.
I also supported the inclusion of The Stranglers, and I still think their exclusion was one of the biggest mistakes this site ever made. Certif1ed, who is one of the people with the best knowledge of musical theory in here, also supported their inclusion. It just goes to show that prejudices can't be overcome easily. not even in music and not even in here. You may still call Jean's decision childish, but I fully understand her. She had all the arguments on her side, but the decision went the other way. So who was really childish here?
I am not Jean and did not feel as peeved as she did, so I did not resign. I did not visit this site as often as I used to for a while after this decision though. Not because I was peeved but because I did not expect to gain new insights from people who made such a bad decision against an overwhelming array of arguments. It is as if the image of this site had tarnished somewhat after this incident.

BaldFriede wrote: npjnpj wrote: Sorry, but that decision of yours is just plain ridiculous.   I don't think I've ever come across more diverse ideas of what prog actually is than on this site, discussions and threads about just this have filled countless pages over time.   The fact itself that there are so many different views on this, is a central essance of this site, and the acceptance of all these diverse opinions by all concerned, including practically all admins etc. is an invaluable commodity here.   If this was not accepted here,it would either result in either a centralised view of a chosen few and lead to an instant expulsion of a large part of artists featured here, or a fragmentation into a dozen or more warring fractions.   I'm sorry to say that I find your status resignation quite childish, in spite of what you say.   And to take the edge of it, here's a smiley for you:  You have to know Jean as well as I do to fully understand why she resigned. She was very disappointed that people did not really listen to the music but went by image instead to judge The Stranglers. And you can't tell her it ain't so; Jean knows a lot about musical theory, she learned it with her piano lessons, and understands the complexity of their songs. That's why it was no question at all for her that The Stranglers are prog. She even presented the checklist of criteria by which this site supposedly goes to decide whether a band is prog or not, and they fully qualified on that list. So it was clear to her that the decision was based on nothing but prejudice. She was very disappointed that the people in here are so much led astray by the image of a band rather than take the content of their music into account, and she did not want to be seen as a representative of this.in her opinion shallow attitude; I know my Jean too well there. But she is too polite to say so, so she chose to resign using a false pretense as reason. She does not care if people think her decision is childish; she'd rather take that than be offensive. I also supported the inclusion of The Stranglers, and I still think their exclusion was one of the biggest mistakes this site ever made. Certif1ed, who is one of the people with the best knowledge of musical theory in here, also supported their inclusion. It just goes to show that prejudices can't be overcome easily. not even in music and not even in here. You may still call Jean's decision childish, but I fully understand her. She had all the arguments on her side, but the decision went the other way. So who was really childish here? I am not Jean and did not feel as peeved as she did, so I did not resign. I did not visit this site as often as I used to for a while after this decision though. Not because I was peeved but because I did not expect to gain new insights from people who made such a bad decision against an overwhelming array of arguments. It is as if the image of this site had tarnished somewhat after this incident.

That's already a much more solid viewpoint than just "I have to agree with the flock, or else, when not agreeing, I have to resign".

That being said, we do indeed tend to lose some people, when more controversial suggestions like these are discussed to the bone, and the dissatisfaction of the rejection is too big for the person who lobbied for it most.